It's official - Saab on a deroute.....

But what's there to see? Do you expect GM will have done any significant development work on their stock 1.8 just to put it in a bottom of the range Saab?

I'm willing to bet that if there is going to be a 1.8 it will be exactly the same 1.8 engine used in Vectras. Anything else just wouldn't make sense.

That's OK, I've never driven an GM900. Yes the classic 900 is very special, it probably became too expensive to make with the kind of engine and suspension layout. I sometimes kick myself that I didn't buy the last 'Ruby' model, it was offered with loads of equipment as an outgoing model. I remember I saw one flying past me on the motorway, felt like my car was stationary. That was before they began taking speeding seriously...

I drove the GM900 and the newer 9-3s. I own two Classics.

I would have bought a 9-3, but I happened to find a 1993 900 SPG hatchback - obivously at much less money than a new 9-3. This means I can seriously think about a new car in a few years.

Which is why Ford/GM/Mazda/etc. like to use Opel engines in low-end cars as it makes them cheap to produce but expensive to fix since the engines are European and here in Australia that makes parts and service several orders of magnitude higher than for Japanese imported engines, or even the locally-made Australian engines (which GM are buying!).

Craig.

PS. I'm getting another C900 tomorrow. slightly later build than my current one. Has engine problems so will evalualate it and see if it's worth repairing in it's own right. Otherwise it'll become a donor car. It has a manual transmission which is different to my current 900 (3-spd auto).

-- Craig Ian Dewick ( snipped-for-privacy@lios.apana.org.au).

APANA Sydney Regional Co-ordinator. Operator of Jedi (an APANA Sydney POP). Always striving for a secure long-term future in an insecure short-term world Have you exported a crypto system today? Do your bit to undermine the NSA.

Ford use Opel engines?? Really???.

I drove a '96 900 SE turbo and found it pretty poor - yes it was fast, but the thing was all over the place...

I find my '89 'beater' 9000 drove better and was more refined.. Drives better than my C900 too! (sorry!)

Can't say I'm impressed with anything GM Saab, though the new 9-3 is getting there...

I was thinking about upgrading my 1992 classic 900 last year, so I test drove a bunch of 95-98 gm900's. I could not beleive the difference. I thought it was a horrendous ride, cramped inside, and without being able to put my finger on it, it just felt cheap overall. I was shocked, as family members have a 200 9-5, and a 1994 9000cse, which are both fantastic cars in every regard.

Apparently the GM900s weren't very safe either, >

APANA Sydney Regional Co-ordinator. Operator of Jedi (an APANA SydneyPOP).

The Saab 900 94-97 didn't do well in scripted crash tests, but has proven to be safe in real world crashes.

The Swedish insurance company Folksam collects information about real accidents and publishes its findings. The result for 2003 can be found here:

< >

Red bar is bad (more than 15% worse than average car), and green bar is good (at least 30% better than average car). The best is green bar with a gold star (at least 40% better than average car), a class Folksam had to create because of one car, the Saab 9-5.

Some telling examples from the list:

Saab 900 79-93 blue at least more than 15% safer than average car

Saab 9000 85-97 green at least more than 30% safer than average car

Opel Vectra 89-95 yellow as safe as average car Saab 900 94-97 green at least more than 30% safer than average car Saab 9-3 98-02 green at least more than 30% safer than average car

Opel Vectra 96-01 blue at least more than 15% safer than average car Saab 9-5 98- green* at least more than 40% safer than average car

Would you like to drive a Saab 900 79-93 or a Saab 900 94-97 in a crash? Would you like to drive a Opel Vectra 89-95 or a Saab 900 94-97 in a crash? Would you like to drive a Saab 9-5 98- or a Opel Vectra 96-01 in a crash?

Please don't forget that this is artificially skewed by the airbags, which *may* reduce minor injuries in low speed crashes, but do little to protect in high speed crashes.

I know which one I'd rather roll...

The Folksam study is based on real world accidents. If the airbags help in real world accidents then the car is safer in real world accidents. Ignoring the airbags is just an academic exercise with no real world connection.

Not tried one of these, but your not the first person that I've heard this from.

I drove a 9k XSE while my 900 was in getting a chain done. It felt smoother quieter and less jittery.

But when I got back in my 900, it felt right. Still crashy, still bangy, still noisy, but right.

hopefully the new shocks I hope to fit over the weekend will help, and when I go in to get that wheel ebaring done, I get them to check the bushes and ball joints at the same time.

While no one doubts that Saab is undergoing major change that has most long-time admirers of the brand holding their breath, all this "an '88 900 is a smoother car than a '99 9-3" is nostalgic garbage. They were always very capable cars for their time, but I know that in '95, when I considered buying different Saabs that ranged from '89 to '93 in time period and test drove them a lot in Saab dealer lot condition, I was steered towards the more recent model as the better driving car every time. Eveyrbody has a right to prefer something else for whatever emotional reasons, but it's silly to claim that 20 year old cars were better engineered and drove better than what Saab producing today. They were great cars... for their time. Now they are cars with a lot of personality and all.

...pablo

It's not so simple. No doubt you get some innovations in newer models, but they also take something out, the manufacturers have to make money. The Classic 900 had double wishbone front suspension, while the GM900 has the McPherson struts that are now widely used for FWD cars.

You misunderstand me (I think). Airbags (probably) reduce injuries in low speed collisions. There is very little evidence to suggest that they help at all in high speed accidents (when fatalities are far more likely).

However, there is little doubt that a strong body shell does help in those circumstances.

A no-airbag comparison gives a truer indication of how likely the car is to save your life in a high speed accident.

But the real life data includes all kind of accident, including high speed accidents. It is probably always possible to make any car the safest car, just by careful selection of the type of accident. Unfortunately, life is not like that, when the accident happens you don't have the option to select the accident that is the safest for your car.

Btw, why do you believe that an airbag is of no help in an high speed accident? This theory is news to me.

Air bags can only ever be of use as long as the body shell retains most if it's original shape. In a high speed crash (60mph+) the body shell retains very little of it's original shape - it deforms hugely. Most of the damage to the occupants is due to impact with bits of deformed car body coming at them from different directions. An airbag is of little use [1].

I've been unable to find a single comprehensive study which proves that airbags are of any real value if [a] you're travelling over 30mph and [b] you're wearing a belt.

[1] This is all based on stuff I've read, and sensible reasoning, not first-hand experience. Happy to be corrected.

Well, if my previous experience with my NA 2.0 9-3 can be extended to the 9-3SS, it will not be a nice car to drive unless you are absolutely never in as hurry and never encounter any steep grades. I think this comparison will apply as the 1.8 has about the same power and torque rating the old 2.0 had and car weight is slightly increased.

Mark Gerritsma

The Classic engine is also installed back to front. The NG has the transverse engine layout.

The Classic big curved windshield is also gone. Its not just an emotional attachment. I suspect many of the NG changes were made for economic reasons, not engineering reasons.

I test drove a NG Saab and a Camry, both front wheel drive with transverse engines and struts, flat windshields, both manual transmissions. Both drove OK and have good safety ratings, but the Camry was half the price. Guess how many Camrys are on the road versus NG Saabs? It comes down to economics for many people.

I currently own two Classics a 900S and a SPG. I looked at a second Classic 900 Turbo, but three Saabs for one driver did not impress the spouse:-(