Re: GM's Dick Wagonwheel dont wanna rub butts in bed with french

John Horner wrote in news:9Grvg.12531$k31.4430@trnddc06:

I would guess because CAFE is based on the Average of units Sold. GM might have more models that get 30+ mpg, but if they sell 5-10 times the number of trucks and truck-based SUV's as Toyota, it pulls the average down. And where did anyone read GM is "constantly" at risk of failing to meet CAFE requirements? First I've ever heard of it, and since the media seems intent on tearing into GM at every chance, you'd think it would be front- page WSJ!

Then why did you write that, except to at least imply that GM and Ford were better than the foreign car makers? Are GM and Ford vehicles more fuel efficient than similar import brand vehicles?

You may infer whatever you wish. I did not imply anything of the kind, I simply made a statement of fact and that was many buyer assume they must by Japanese make vehicle that get good fuel mileage. The fact is that is a enormous assumption, since both GM and Ford offer more different vehicles that get 30 or more MPG than does ANY import

As to what is more fuel efficient it depends on your needs, if you can settle for an underpowered mid size car you can buy a 4 cy Camry, or a better yet a 4 cy Honda Civic or Ford Focus that get better mileage for much less money. If you want enough power to haul five people, and all of their stuff more safely, you need to buy a V6 Camry or Accord. Or you can buy a V6 Fusion for much less. If that is the case you might want to look at a safer more powerful V8 Impala that sells for less than a V6 Camry and get the same kind of mileage.

It all depends are ones needs. I know of several people, who live in the mountain area of N. E. PA, that bought small cars thinking they will get better mileage only to discover that running in the lower gears needed to maintain speed on the mountains, the mileage if far from ideal. One even traded his 05 Civic on a larger 06 V8 domestic and his mileage is averaging on five MPG less than he got with the 4 cy Civic, on his 150 mile commute over the mountains to and from work.

mike hunt

mike, it's obvious you work for GM...if i were you i'd cash out....there may be no pension when the time comes

Thanks, I was waiting for your permission to do that.

Why do you assume that buyers assume that? I never have but instead I always check the individual models. But it's disingenuous of you to claim that you're merely trying to point out facts because whenever somebody criticizes GM or Ford, you reply by saying they have more high-gas mileage cars than any foreign company, they sell more cars than any foreign company, etc., you know very well that you do that to persuade people into believing that GM and Ford are better. IOW you sound like somebody from the sales dept.

So what? I don't buy entire model lines, but individual cars.

I mean, which comparable vehicles get the best mileage - comparable in

0-60 times, amount of interior room, cargo capacity, vehicle weight, etc?. IOW, can you show that GM or Ford models use less fuel than similar German or Japanese models?

Consumer Reports said the city/highway/average mileage figures were:

Impala V-6: 13/29/20 Camry V-6: 16/32/23 Camry 4: 16/36/24 (non hybrid)

They didn't test the V-8 Impala but said the Monte Carlo SS was similar and that its V-8 averaged 17 MPG

So how can you claim that the V-8 impala gets the same kind of mileage as the V-6 Camry, unless you're relying on the unrealistic EPA figures?

Its a front wheel drive truck, do we need to say more

the foreign stuff is better in all cases. they are all over reported though, where did you get htose numbers.

I believe more fromt fueleconomy.gov or canada Energuide.

Picasso wrote in news:0yHvg.12702$ snipped-for-privacy@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca:

a surprisingly interesting read for a government report. It still doesn't substaniate the claim that GM "struggles" to meet CAFE standards every year. Sure, their car average exceeds CAFE by 1.5 mpg while Honda's may by 8 mpg, but that doesn't mean GM is stuggling. It means honda sells a LOT of 4 cyl. accords and civics.

JP

I went to

choose three Ford cars, and used the comparisons that Ford provides.

Jeff

You can spin things any way you wish. You obviously buy what you prefer. Surely you do not think other buyers make their own chose, as to what they believe is the best vehicle for their money, when they chose to buy a vehicle? If you don't believe EPA comparisons, based of the same test criteria, whom can you believe? I do not assume anything when it come to where buyers prefer to spend their hard earned money, it is a demonstrable fact that more buyers choose to buy from GM and Ford than any import. But then of course most buyers are not as astute as you, right? ;)

mike hunt

Now cut that out, logic is not allowed in the NGs discussions, only personal opinions ;)

mike hunt

Hell I don't even own a GM vehicle, fact are facts ;)

mike hunt

I'll try to remember that next time, OK?

mike

The MPG or L/100km reported by ALL mfg's is drastically overreported, and does not show true mileage.

Check fueleconomy.gov or canada energuide.

and it's not supposed to. The mileage ratings are for comparison purposes only. They are run in a controlled repeatable environment so that you can make a decision on an apples to apples comparison. Also, since they are run on a stand there is no factor for aerodynamic efficiency.

It would be interesting to see what the number would be without the special credits for "flex fuel" vehicles both Ford and GM get.

It would also be interesting to see the number for vehicles without sales to rental car fleets included. One of the reasons that the US makers put so many Cobalt and Malibu class vehicles into rental fleets is to improve the mix of vehicles sold.

I suppose that the question is how to define the word struggle I used. It is admittedly imprecise!

John