Re: GM's Dick Wagonwheel dont wanna rub butts in bed with french

Mike Hunter: Give it a rest. All I see is you criticizing and otherwise badmouthing others. I had a '93 Pontiac Grand Am for 9 years, 113,000 miles. That damn car gave me nothing but problems. Gone through two water pumps and one alternator, and a gas guage problem that was never fixed by the dealer. And that was the 3300 V6. I did not have all the other associated problems that came with the infamous Quad 4 of the same years. My confidence in Ford and GM is very low. I will probably never buy another "American" car again. And if I did, Ford and GM will be at the bottom of my list. If GM was so great, then why would they need a WRX to badge under SAAB?? Why would they need Toyota to badge under Geo?? Why would Ford need Mazda to badge under their models?

I'm merely pointing out some demonstrable facts. Others are offering opinions, telling others to buy their favorite brand, not me. If asked my opinion I tell others to drive and price all those that suit their needs and then buy the one that best suits their budget. From what I know of the automotive business today ALL manufactures are building good, high quality, long lasting vehicles. The only REAL difference among them is style and price ;)

mike hunt

The same reason Lexus badges Toyotas as a Lexus, or Acura badges Hondas as Acuras, I guess.

mike hunt

You used to be correct. What is exciting about an Impala? Malibu? Lacrosse? Ford 500? Concorde? Stratus? Boring. Case closed.

Agree. That is why I bought a John Deere lawnmower. The Kawasaki engine on it starts on one pull every time.

FWIW I don't know about Europe, but here in the USA absolutely NOTHING good has ever come out of Renault. Shit cars, with shit engineering and non existent quality control.

Renault Fuego Renault Alliance (Car of the year??? who got paid off on that one) Eagle Premier (a Chrysler product) mostly Renault parts. A complete disaster. Most have self destructed by now.

Renault IMHO has made some of the absolute worst cars in history. At least here in the USA. Maybe they kept all the good cars for Europe?

GM might as well align itself with the engineers who produced the AMC Pacer.

(...)

My Contour has 131,000 mi on it and is going strong. No major repairs. The biggest repairs were two wheel bearings and an axel in 9 years. Pretty good. Around $1000 maintenance and repairs total.

Why does Mazda resell Fords? Because Mazda can't make an SUV as good as the Escape or a truck as good as the Ranger on its own.

Jeff

GM is not on the verge of bancruptcy. And they are not looking at Renault to bail them out. One member of the board of trustees thinks it makes sense. That's all.

Who determines whether the cars with the high mileage ratings are bought? The buyers.

I don't like GM designs, except the Saturn Vue. But, overall their cars and trucks are ok. Their financial problems are partly the result of stupid contracts that cost GM big when it comes to pensions and health care.

There are other problems, like not having the most appealing cars and marketing issues.

Jeff

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Plus American cars

Don't forget the VW bugs, VW GTIs, BMW 2002, Peugeot 504, Mazdia Miata, BMW Mini Cooper, VW Bus, VW Thing, Porshes and MG. There are plenty of foreign cars with character, too.

Case is not closed!

Jeff

I don't think the Escape is that good. Knew someone who had one and had many problems with it. My brother had an Explorer and had many problems with it. Now he has a Toyota 4runner. Much better truck in my opinion.

Lexus IS a Toyota in more elegant refined packaging, made by the same company. Acura IS a Honda in more elegant refined packaging, made by the same company. A WRX IS NOT a SAAB by any means, and same for the others I mentioned.

If you are going to preach all your opinions on everyone then you should get your facts straight my friend.

Mike Hunter wrote:

Agreed. The current American designs are uninspiring. The new 2007 Camry is pretty cool.

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You're going to find people who have had the opposite experience with Japanese cars that, let's just say didn't work out, and American vehicles that did. Mike Huntrer talked about a guy who had problems with a Toyota-made vehicle and ended up with a Mercury. My father's company bought a Toyota SR5 truck in the 70s. Ran great, except it rusted out. The Checy S-10 they bought a few years later is still going (although they had to put a new bed on it a few years ago because of rust).

Because of the varied needs of people (e.g., people with kids have very different need that single college kids or retirees), and different tastes and experience, people look for different things in cars. And people will continue to buy differeent types of cars, just like people buy different things at reastaurants.

You're never going to get one car maker to satisfy the needs and wants of everyone.

Actually, only the engine was from Renault. It was an engine that was jointly developed by Peugeot, Renault and Volvo. AMC had a contract with Renault to buy so many of the engines a year for a particualr length of time. It was not a bad car. The interior looked cheap. It had a weird engine layout (FWD, with the engine mounted so that the crankshaft went from the front to the back). It got fairly good reviews. Unfortuantely, with AMC Jeep was bought out by Chrysler, Chrysler was only interested in the Jeeps. So they honored the contract with Renault, sold the Eagle Premier as along as they had too, and closed down the Eagle brand. THe car was made in Canada.

Let's see: Nissan and Renault have been turned around and are making a profit. It is not engineering that GM lacks (ok, we can argue about that), but management skills.

Jeff

I think the Fursion, Escape, Explorer Sport and Mustang, the Dodge VIpe and Charger (did you see the police version), Nitro, Durango and Dokota, Chrysler 300 and PT Convertable, , Pontiac Vibe, Chevy Avalanche and Saturn Vue and Hummers are all pretty cool.

It depends on what you like.

Jeff

The point is that no auto maker owns >50% of the US market, making even the largest one of them is a minority.

Clueless people like yourself shouldn't be so smug.

GM did align itself with the stylists who designed the body of the AMC Pacer, and they produced the Pontiac Aztec and most of the Cadillac fronts.

But Rolls Royce is not known for high quality. They don't ride as smoothly as Cadillacs or Lincolns, and they break down at high rates.

Don't worry, it will only be a few years until Mr. Hunter's "argument" rests in peace. Isn't he the guy who used to like to brag that GM, Ford and Chrysler all outsold any import ??????

GM and Ford both are in a sales and market share tailspin. Neither company has their act together on enough fronts to stop the slide. Both are going to end up far smaller companies than they are today, if they survive at all.

Have a look at what happened to the UK based auto industry from

1950-1990 if you want to see an example of what can happen when a long history of poor management decisions and union shortsightedness act together to undermine an industry. Of course in the UK you had the added component of significant government meddling in the car industry, which we may see in the US if a labor-backed goverment (that would be the Democrats) once again takes power.

John