Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison?

That's too much work. It's almost time for my own annual oil change, but I'll just take the cars to the Grease 'n' Go and let them put in whatever it is that they have.

dwight

This and most of the rest of the discussion is off the mark. If you change oil at 3000 miles it is because you are interested in what the engine will be like in 300000 miles not what the oil will be like in 5000 miles. Most people don't care what the inside of the engine looks like in 300000 miles - why should they? If you are a typical new car owner you sell the car long before you discover the consequences of the maintenance intervals you use. A

As far as I know the type of dirt that gets into oil due to combustion byproducts is not going to be any different for synthetic oil. If you use cheap oil and filter and change every 3000 miles after 300000 miles the engine will be as clean or cleaner on the inside than the day it was driven off the lot. That is because there will not be any accumulation of grime over time. From what I have seen about 90%-98% of vehicles with more than 120K miles are not so clean on the inside. Wipe your finger on the inside of these engines and you no longer have a clean finger. I don't need to know what those cars have had for maintenance, but I'm pretty sure it definitely isn't 3000 mile oil and filter changes.

-jim

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This is the basic issue involved here. For most people, keeping their car in better condition doesn't benefit them any. I think this is a very serious problem; when I was very young my parents taught me to treat my things properly. It seems a lot of people don't remember this.

This is true, BUT it's possible that the synthetic oil can hold more combustion byproducts in suspension for longer.

And, for a lot of modern engines that are built to tight tolerances, combustion byproducts may not be the primary failure mechanism of the oil. Of course, you don't know if this is the case for your engine without doing an oil analysis.

This is sadly true. However, I will say that if you pull the valve covers on MY cars and run your finger around, it will come back clean, after 270,000 miles and 480,000 miles on each. At least, it did the last time I did valve adjustment on them which was a few months ago. I understand this is not typical, but I don't want a typical car. I want a car that runs well for a long time and doesn't cost much to keep running.

I will attribute the cleanliness of the engine more to regular oil changes every 3,000 miles than to the use of the synthetics.

--scott

Too numerous to count. Do not use Syntec.

I admit that my experiences are limited to the

Why not?

Your first sentence holds the essence of eternal truth. We know of no argument (for automobile engines) other than it costs more than a more traditional treatment.

People can choose what they will.

I used this s*it in a lawn mower engine (just after break-in) and it was a BIG mistake.

I would have no problem using it in my auto if the auto specifies it, if it does not contribute to seepage, and if it costs me little or no more than traditional lubricants.

It left crap in my Mustang that Royal Purple had to clean out.

What kind of crap? Under what operating conditions? How many Royal Purple oil changes did it take to clean it out?

Mine was a B&S too, Mark.. The engine was ruined in short order.

Wouldnt you guess, Ashton, that the automakers are covering their rears on this? If you tell someone he can run the oil for 15,000 miles, he may do it, and there can be eventual warranty implications. It sounds like a policy decision rather than a technical one.

Lots of manufacturers (foods, for example) put "use by" dates on their products NOT because the products are bad after that time. It relieves extended product quality warranty questions, I guess.

Normal conditions, mostly highway mileage he had an hour Interstate drive to work. No modification, no drag racing. The car had about 40 or

Oh, the valve covers were horrendous as well, I had to chisel the crap out with a screwdriver. They looked almost as bad as a 60K mile Pennzoil set of valve covers used to if you used it in the 70s.

Hmmm, if you acquired the car with 40K or 50K miles, you have only the original owner's word that the Syntec was used from day one and that the oil was changed according to Ford's recommended intervals. I think a more likely cause of the buildup is neglected oil changes, whether using conventional or synthetic oil, and the original owner switched to Syntec in hopes of cleaning out the sludge. As far as the sludge in the valve cover, it was probably there before you acquired the vehicle, but it is theoretically possible (though not probable) that the sludge came from the Royal Purple or Amsoil products or some kind or reaction from switching products.

That's true, and is a key part of this discussion. Too bad its being discussed in terms of "synthetic" versus "conventional," because that really doesn't matter. What DOES matter is the rest of the oil additive package, in particular the compoenents that maintain the total base number (TBN) and keep the oil from becoming acidic. You can have synthetics with poor TBN control additive, and you can have conventionals with good packages. Now *most* synthetics also happen to be higher-end oils and have decent additive packages... but its not BECAUSE they're synthetic.

If you believe that particular engines are "not suitable for synthetic oil," then there's no use trying to have an intelligent, engineering-based discussion.

And I've been using synthetic oil in 2 B&S 6-horsepower lawnmowers and a

Of course the same was true of the 60s B&S engines I had back in the 70s and 80s that only got single-grade SAE 30 dino oil, too. I just can't kill a B&S, and I sure don't take it easy on them. I've only ever gotten rid of a B&S powered mower because the mower deck fell apart around the engine.

Based on looking at the very dirty oil after first use on my Briggs and Stratton engine, I made the determination that synthetic would not work well in that engine, even though I had no problem with it in my Honda lawnmower. Someone else mentioned in this thread that they put synthetic oil in a B&S engine and it was ruined.

You can piss and moan about intelligence all you want to, but those are the facts.

In the case of small engines with splash-plate lubrication rather than an oil pump, the synthetic oils are NOT generally suitable for them. The better flow characteristics of the synthetics mean the splash plate cannot pick up enough oil.

This is why Royal Purple, for instance, makes a special synthetic oil that is designed to be extra-sticky, for small engines.

--scott

Yes, and "becoming acidic" is just one of the things that happens to oil as the miles go by. So what is the advantage of getting a good additive package that counteracts or slows down that inevitable deterioration versus just changing the oil more frequently to avoid the deterioration?

-jim

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What $3 Fram filer? I checked on-line prices at local auto parts stores (Advance and AutoZone). The $3.99 Fram (PH2) and the $6.99 Fram (TG2) equivalents to the Motorcraft FL820S ($3.68) both include the same glued cardboard end caps and the same mediocre relief valve. The $6.99 Fram filter does buy you a silicone anti-drain back valve. However, the CHEAPER Motorcraft FL820S includes the silicone anti-drain back valve, a very robust pressure relief valve, and potted metal end caps. There is no comparison, the Fram filters are a rip off, at least for this application.

Maybe for other applications, the Fram filters are better. I can't say for sure. I've only cut open Fram filters for a few applications (FL820S, FL1, a Honda Filter) and they all had the same basic construction that I don't like.

Ed