GM Dealer Challenges the Toyota Tundra's Ads... AS BULL

The MSRP may have been $3,000 more but you can bet the farm it would have cost you at least $5,000 more to drive the Camry home ;)

mike

As any salesman and he will tell you the last question a customer asks before signing on the dotted line is; "How much is my monthly payment?" ;)

mike

Among the vehicles you try, drive and get a total drive home price on a Ford Edge, then decide, WBMA

mike

One is always best served by first driving all those that they believe will suit their needs, then get a total drive home price for each and buy the one that best suits their budget.

mike

I drove a new trudra today with a 5.7 and trailer tow package with

4.30 gears and that truck is POWERFULL!!! The 5.3 Chevy is a wimp compared to it. The 6 speed auto is smooth and has well matched ratios and cruises at 65 MPH at 1700 RPM showing between 20 to 22 MPG in instant MPG on a 10 minute highway cruise with a new tight engine. When you jump on it if flat out explodes into action and it can take off so quickly from a standstill it is like being shot out of a catapult. With the 65 series tires that really grip the road on launch it will realy still jump even when you light them up which is very easy to do and it takes off like a shot while they are spinning. It has raw power that the GM truck can only dream of. There is a new gas powered king on the block like it or not now that GM has retired the 8.1. That truck is built too with brake rotors that dwarf GM ones that you can see just by looking at it. Yota did their homework and if this is how they build a 1/2 ton (it has a 10.5 inch rear axle and massive drive shaft too) Detriot better really worry when they build a 3/4 ton model. You might pay less for GM truck but you will get less too. That truck is going to go places.

----------------- TheSnoMan.com

What are the HP & torque ratings on the Tundra?

I seem to recall 381 HP and around 401 ft lbs of torque. It has a 32 valve V8 with varible valve timing and it has a flat power band and it pulls strongly from about 2000 RPM to redline of 6 grand. It is one sweet motor. Quite honestly it would not need to be bigger to haul a

3/4 truck around because it easily out powers any gas truck engine made today. The only gas SUV engine made today that would be a serious match for it would be maybe a Ford V10.

----------------- TheSnoMan.com

Based on this, it appears that Toyota has upped the ante considerably with the "bread-and-butter" segment of product that the US manufacturers count on so much. When will the US catch up?! <sigh>

On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 23:43:26 +0000, a rock fell the sky, hitting SnoMan on the head, and inspiring the following:

That's what I've been reading, too.

Who *does* build their own? Ford uses Navistar IIRC, Dodge uses Cummins and GM uses Duramax, which was a joint venture with Joe Izusu.

I read it in Diesel Power and I think in Truck Trend.

This is quite true but a Toyota HD pickup would likely sell better against US one with a US engine vs one designed and built by Toyota because if it was built in US and had a US motor too it would be a lot harder for Detriot to try to wave the flag and call it a import vs "amercain" detriot trucks that use imported parts.

----------------- TheSnoMan.com

I don't know, there are a lot of people (like me) who just aren't going to buy a Japanese truck. Doesn't matter where it was designed and built if it says "Toyota" it's a Japanese truck.

That being said if I have the choice between say a Ford made in Mexico or a Chebby made in the US, I'd go with the Chebby, even though I'd really rather have a Ford.

(actually I want a new Studebaker!).

Jeff DeWitt

You are kidding, right? Actual truck sales in the month of January by both GM and Ford 2007 models, already have past Toyotas total projected ANNUAL

2007 truck sales. LOL

mike

Actually it is Chevy that make trucks in Mexico. Ford makes 87% of the trucks it sells in the US, in the US of 90% US parts. The balance are made over across the Detroit River in Canada of 90% US parts.

mike

He didn't say they would out sell the old boys, he said "Toyota has upped the ante considerably ..." which means that buyers have more/better choices and it -=may=- (by implication) impact Fud and Gimmiee sales.

On Sun, 1 Apr 2007 17:36:05 -0400, "Mike Hunter" snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com found these unused words floating about:

Toyota up the anti for its own trucks, only. GM Ford and Dodge have been building trucks as good of better than Toyota is now just starting to build, that is a fact. Toyota pricing will not hurt Toyota not the domestics

mike

No it is not. The 4.6L V-8 in the trucks is a 2 valve SOHC design.

No, the 4.0L V-6 in a Mustang is an SOHC design, The 4.6L is the three valve SOHC design.

Currently none of the Ford V-8s have 4 valves. In the recent past certain models got the DOHC 3.9L, 4.6L, and 5.4L V-8s, but Ford is getting essentially the same horsepower from the 3 valve SOHC design, so they aren't offering a 4 valve V-8 at the moment. Ford does offer several 4 valve DOHC I-4s and V-6s. All the 3 valve engines have variable valve timing, as do the DOHC engines.

Look under the hood of a Tundra, and then look under the hood of a Corvette. Which engine takes up more space (the Tundra). Which engine weighs more (the Tundra).

No true. You don't have to have push rods to have hydraulic lash adjusters.

Spoken like a techno geek who thinks if race car has something it is the best thing for a street car. The "pressure" applied is no different if everything is working properly. With sliding calipers the biggest problem is sticky sliders. With modern sliding calipers that are properly maintained this isn't much of a problem. 4 piston caliper don't suffer from sticky sliders (there are none), but they do suffer from sticky pistons (been there) and you have twice as many seals to leak. As far as I am concerned there is only one advantage to 4 piston calipers - you can plumb the pistons in pairs to achieve true dual circuit braking. I am not sure it Toyota is doing this - do you know? I doubt it since they would have to have twice as many brake lines running to the front of the truck.

No, this wrong.

The Tundra doesn't stop any better than competitive vehicles. If there is no performance advantage, then it is hype.

Or sludged up engines that burn up your car? You should look at the history of the cruise control deactivation switch recall. Initially there were a very few vehicles from a clearly designed production range that appeared to have a problem. Ford announced a recall for those specific vehicles. Suddenly every sort of Ford truck built in the last 15 years was accused of catching on fire. Fords were accused of burring up that didn't even have the same style circuit. Sort of like the Toyota sludge case don't you think?

Ed

Ford doesn't offer the V-10 in a F150. But the V-10 is really a truck engine, so I doubt it would be as fast as the Tundra 5.7L V-8. I don't know much about the Dodge V-10, but again unless you are talking about the Viper V-10, the Dodge V-10 is a truck engine. No one building serious work trucks would tune their engine to for drag racing. Ford, Chevrolet, and Dodge have all built silly trucks set up to go fast in a straight line (like the Ford Lightning), but only Toyota seems to think anyone takes drag trucks seriously as work trucks. A 2004 Ford Lightning would do 0-60 in 5.2 sec (or less) and stop from 60 in 162 feet. Of course it was not a real work truck, but it sure would look good in that silly Tundra 0-60-0 ad.....

Ed

Believe what you want, keep your head in the sand, hide behine mummy's skirts ... whatever !!!

I've owned detroit 'iron' and my Toyota beat the hades out of all Ford & GM's I've had !!!

On Sun, 1 Apr 2007 22:14:50 -0400, "Mike Hunter" snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com found these unused words floating about:

Clearly, the Ford web page author made a mistake. However , OHV = over head valves and you don't have to have push rods to have over head valves. So while the usage is misleading, it is not false. The 4.6L V-8 most definitely has a over head valves. It also has a single overhead camshaft. So while it is an SOHC engine, it is also a OHV engine.

Especially when you measure the horsepower with special intakes and exhaust...

?section=news&subject=recent&story=031306storyaDN&referer=&aff=sacbee

Not true. You might be able to claim that push rod valve trains have more reciprocating mass, but not necessarily the whole engine (and even then you might be on shaky ground). You should check out NASCAR push rod engines (even the Toyota NASCAR V-8). They spin those 6 liter V-8s to over 10,000 rpm with push rods. If valve train reciprocating mass was the main deterring factor in engine performance, race cars would all be running flat head engines.

Does yours?

People get fixated on maximum horsepower numbers. What I want is a car that drives properly. I've had 240 HP cars that were a pain to drive in traffic, and 140 HP cars that were a joy to drive in traffic. The V-6 Camry I test droive a was a POS. If you floored it, it accelerated briskly, but in around town driving it was hopeless. Unresponsive, the transmission constantly hunted for the right gear, and unless you floored it, it lagged like heck. My SO's 4 cylinder automatic transmission RAV4 drove much better in traffic. Toyota can publish all the big numbers they want for horsepower, but if it drives like a POS, it is a POS.

Ed