(OT:) HEY! Let's have two legal systems!!

He used the term, "illegal drivers". Illegal drivers are illegal drivers. It matters not within the term if that person has NO license or a suspended license. That the undersheriff failed to see his self-contradiction, to me, was merely his pandering. Obvious.

If you want to test you unproven theory, have a look at the prison population within states experiencing illegal alien influx. Also look at the stats detailing the cost to taxpayers across the country in the form of violent crime.

Get back to me on that one.

Even the leftist city government in Los Angeles freely admit that a small minority of Hispanics in their city/county carry insurance0 ignoring the fact, much like the woman interviews in the NPR link, that driving is not a right. It's a privilege granted by each state, and carries with it certain responsibilities to others on the road.

Don't like it? Leave...or don't drive.

In California, I wonder if illegals are more trouble in cities than in rural agricultural areas. It makes sense that they would be, but you never know.

In any case, they're here because of demand. I once asked my son and three of his friends if they'd be OK with harvesting cabbage for the same hourly rate they were being paid at their various other jobs. They looked at me like I was out of my mind. That's a real problem.

I truly think that's the case. Apathy among those who don't seem to appreciate the severity of troubles seems to be more common in rural areas. They don't experience it, so it doesn't exist.

I'd pay triple or more for a head of cabbage knowing my tax dollars weren't being pissed away elsewhere. It'd be a bargain.

Maybe the problems don't exist in all rural areas. That's why I don't presume to know anything at all about agricultural communities in California.

Yeah, but it would be disastrous for people already having trouble affording decent food. By the way, a lot of illegals here are working for the standard minimum wage. Still, nobody else wants their jobs.

Don't make the mistake of confining this problem to agricultural areas. The illegal problem is far more dangerous, seriously dangerous, in non-ag areas. Any large SoCal city, particularly at or south of L.A., has them on a few street corners waiting to be picked up for work.

What's the solution, then? Keep selling off our country one community at a time for cheap cabbage?

Frankly, I've never heard a good solution. Bill Clinton once suggested making it mandatory for all young people to spend some time doing the jobs nobody wants, like picking produce, cleaning hotel rooms, and doing menial restaurant kitchen work. In return, give them some sort of financial reward they can use only for tuition. It's still an interesting idea if someone could make it work.

In another newgroup last year, some idiot said there were machines which could replace all human hands for the harvesting process. The idiot couldn't explain why farmers didn't already have these mysterious machines, though. I got curious and emailed International Harvester with some questions. I got the response that any sane person would've expected: "We would love to invent more machines and make more money, but some crops just can't be handled by machines yet. Maybe someday, robotics will hold the answer."

Here's one suggestion. No one, I mean no one, who immigrates to the U.S. should be able to get any kind of public assistance for a five year minimum unless for humanitarian reasons related to political persecution or a serious medical problem. No one gets any assistance ever if they cannot prove legal status. Those here illegally should be required to do public works such as highway work at minimum wage for five years to obtain a green card. Those not wanting to pay their way, so to speak, get deported.

Every group has its idiot. We even have a few demented ones here, living outside of reality. Imagine, if you will, waiting for some fantasy, nonsensical, tongue-in-cheek bet to be paid so as to be able to afford your roof repair.

Funny, but pathetic. Idiots abound.

Illegals here are doing something much more difficult than highway work: Harvesting food. And, as people who know what they're talking about have pointed out, they blend into the rural communities quite nicely. Until they can be replaced with legal workers, nothing will change.

Someone there who "knew what they're talking about" only knows in his community. He can't possibly understand the crime we see here.

Since he doesn't, it doesn't "exist", remember?

I think we are agreeing that what goes on in your community is not the same as what goes on in farm communities here. Illegals have been part of agriculture here since I first became aware of them in the 1960s. The community described in that NPR story is 90 minutes east of here. The same situation exists in quite a few other places around this part of the state.

California is likely to be different simply due to its proximity to Mexico. You seem to have a big problem with a criminal element. We attract people who want to work and blend in. If they spend their nights hatching illegal plots to rape and pillage, they will end up being arrested and deported. It's in their best interests to behave.

Wanna bet? I made them stop using bananas and condoms in a FORTH grade class, and move it up to sixth grade.

Or the 'town council' in a Colorado town (a bucnh of people in the community) that got together and made up a set of guidelines for what people in the town could and could not put up: no creches, no santas, no colored lights. Acceptable was white lights, snowflakes and not a lot else. They presented it to the town, the real town counxil said, Nah, put up anything you like.

That's the America I like. I'd even go along with a Koran under those circumstances...

I like Japanese and Chinese myself.

(he doesn't think so. Most disagreements with him go so far over his head, he just can't seem to understand when he's been had...)

If that were only true here, we'd not even be having this exchange.

USA:

New English, spoken in the northeast states. Midwestern Twang: Spoken in the center part of the country Southern dialects: Duh. Even you should be able to figure this one out. General American: spoken in about 2/3 of the country.

That's enough diversity for me. Anything else? Learn to speak one of these American dialects, and welcome to America.

A good percentage of those that don't speak English are the illegals and the poor that come here from Puerto Rico. If you GO to Puerto Rico, andbody other than the dirt poor also speak Engliah.

So, shoot 'em. :-)

You seem OK with a president who needs crutches to speak English.

My son semi-jokingly suggested we forget the Fence. Rather, infrared sensor-triggered M60s on tall platforms would suffice.