OT - Where is the outcry?

Frankly, Scarlet, I don't give a damn. I've reached the point where the only way I'll be totally comfortable choosing a candidate is for his/her secret service guys to check me for weapons, and then give me 60 minutes in a locked, windowless room with the candidate. It would be psychologically rattling for the candidate.

This this will never happen, I may just go into the voting booth blindfolded. They're all the same.

"Clinton has cited the influence of Methodism's social gospel and has hired Democratic strategist Burns Strider, a Southern Baptist, to direct her religious outreach. Edwards has stressed how his faith shaped his desire to combat poverty."

Like pigs in the barnyard they grovel for votes.

The silence makes perfect sense. If the pastor or other church religious leadership don't preach for Obama, it's probably OK. Mac Hammond, here in Minnesota, he got in trouble for endorsing Michelle Bachmann from the pulpit during a service. And he'd done it before and been warned. According to the rules, that's a violation and should have resulted in loss of T-E status. Curiously enough, it didn't. I'm so surprised.

In the case at hand, a faith forum sounds like something organized outside of normal religious worship, probably by the members and is probably OK. Some of the events referenced weren't even held in a church and, if it was, it certainly wasn't restricted to church membership only, so that's another way it doesn't meet the endorsement test. Candidates have often been invited to speak in churches for a long time. That's probably OK, as long as time is available for any interested candidate. Just becaue Dubya doesn't go doesn't mean he isn't welcome. Although he would find my church asked an awful lot of questions he wouldn't like to answer.

You might contrast this article with, say, the behavior of a NC church that actually ejected members in 2004 or so for voting (or intending to vote) for Kerry. That pastor didn't get fined by the IRS, either, but he did get the sack, eventually, from the congregation (too late, the people turned out mostly joined other churches).

In fact, the only case I know of where the tax-exempt status of a church was challenged was an Episcopalian church in CA (if I remember right), where the pastor ran some sort of conversation about war between Jesus Christ, John Kerry and George Bush. The pastor didn't endorse anyone (the sketch was about faith informing moral choices) and I gather JC came down on JK for a few things, too, but Dubya's minions went after that church, anyway. Still in the courts, the last I heard but I've lost track.

If the churches in the article cited come anywhere near the cutoff for permitted behavior, you can bet Dubya's brownshirts would be going after those churches, too.

Frankly, it's about time Christians of the True Gospel took Jesus back from the Rightards. Jerry Foulwell was on TV, shortly before he died, preaching FOR war. Is that a faith informed by the Gospels? Or is that a faith that's tailored to gathering political power and gleaning contributions from the gullible?

Give me one good reason why Republicans can use the Christian right to scrape up votes, and Democrats can't appeal to equally influential religious groups of other flavors.

I didn't say they couldn't. It is just your double standard that bothers the hell out of me. I could care less who goes after whom, they are all little pigs during the get voter process.

What double standard? I'm saying the same as you, from what I can see here. Since candidates can't sell themselves based on substance (and that's not necessarily their fault), they go after other methods.

At the same time, Obama has lauded the separation of church and state and has paid homage to America's religious pluralism.

snipped-for-privacy@stargate.com wrote: snip / / / /

Tuesday, October 16, 2007 Pasadena church says IRS drops investigation over anti-war sermon.

By: Associated Press

PASADENA -- The leader of a liberal church that came under scrutiny by the Internal Revenue Service said it no longer faces the imminent loss of its tax-exempt status because of an anti-war sermon delivered days before the 2004 presidential election.

The Rev. J. Edwin Bacon Jr. told the congregants at All Saints Episcopal Church on Sunday that the IRS has closed a lengthy investigation into a speech by the church's former rector, Rev. George F. Regas.

In the sermon, Regas did not urge parishioners to support President Bush or Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., but was critical of the Iraq war and Bush's tax cuts.

Federal tax codes prohibit churches and other tax-exempt institutions from endorsing or opposing political candidates.

In a letter dated Sept. 10, the IRS said the church continues to qualify for tax-exempt status but that Regas' sermon amounted to a one-time intervention in the presidential race. The letter offered no specifics or explanation for either conclusion, but noted that the church did have appropriate policies in place to ensure that it complied with prohibitions on political activity.

Bacon said the letter's unclear conclusion could mean future investigation of the church and leaves a "chilling effect" on the freedom of clerics from all faiths to preach about core moral values and such issues as war and poverty.

The church has "no more guidance about the IRS rules now than when we started this process over two long years ago," Bacon said.

What any idiot could have predicted would happen, has happened. Quite a few times, if fact. The so called "Faith Based Initiative" has led to a process of awarding funds to church's that support republican ideas. Google "Faith Based Initiative awards partisans." Viola!

Heh, no conservative preacher left behind.

Obama hasn't a prayer of a chance.

LOL, not that I don't appreciate a good pun, but shouldn't that be holy ghost of a chance?

For the same reason the left has ALWAYS condemned the right for doing so.

They claim it's a violation of church and state, and that churches which do this should lose their tax-exempt status.

Unless it's THEM who're doing it. Then it's okay.

Hypocrisy.

I guess you missed this part:

"The night also featured an Obama video and a campaign altar call _ an invitation to become a "congregation contact" and rally support for the candidate."

That's my only concern. Had this been a Republican candidate being funded via an "altar call", the roar would be deafening.

BTW, define "true Gospel", in your own words.

Oh well. You didn't expect ethical behavior from either side, did you?

Here's a question to ponder: Many of the candidates are worth millions of dollars. Why do they want to hold public office?

You mean like the roar that we heard when we got the Faith Based Initiative?

You mean a ghouly host

Nope.

Always the million dollar question. Why would these people want a pay cut?

The lust for power.

The Beatitudes are not the Gospel.

The question remains.