"Statically"?
The average number of initial quality defects is around 1-4, and in the first year roughly 10-30% of the cars will have a problem that the owner feels requires attention, with the best rate being about 5%. I don't know what you mean by "problematic" or how you get the 1-2% rate, unless you're referring to outright lemons with gross or high numbers of defects.
"dizzy" wrote
GM has a much broader range of products than does Toyota.
Very good summation. Glad you finally got it.
When I said more people buy GM, Ford and Chrysler products that was not my opinion but a verifiable fact. When I said Toyotas were overpriced and under power and no better than any other manufactures vehicles yes that was MY opinion. You may disagree but that opinion is based on my experience and the vehicle that I have owned.. I bought lots of Toyota and other imports in my time, hell I must have own 60 or more in my near 80 years in Gods green earth. Since I switched from Lexus in 1999 to the cars I buy now I have saved a lot of my hard earned money. The vehicles I buy now have all proven to be just as reliable any Toyota or Lexus and a lot less expensive and more powerful than the comparable Toyotas I drove and priced. I have not had a vehicle, foreign or domestic, that was problematic in 25 years or more. For people it profess in this NG that Toyotas are far superior, dollar for dollar, than the competition is simply not supported by the facts, period
mike hunt
I'll try
mike hunt
Back when they sold even fewer? I owned some of those Toyotas and I got rid of them because they were starting to rust. Get real
mike hunt
Why are losers always the first one's to resort to name calling and insults?
wrote
Perhaps because they were much cheaper at a time when most people had much less disposable income. Same reason the air cooled VW Beetle gained popularity so fast.
Oh, I see. You're a troll. You _like_ to annoy people. It makes you somehow significant to be somebody's pain in the ass, right?
PLONK
cordially, as always,
rm
(top posting corrected)
Read what I wrote again. Dust on the front wheels does not indicate a "problem". Different companies use different types of pads; some are dustier than others.
The troll won't listen. Like most all top posters, he's a lazy, selfish, idiot, and if top posting makes his life easier, he's going to do it, even if it makes it worse for everyone who reads his top-posted idiocy.
And wrong, as I explained.
Not true, globally, nitwit.
Understand that the decline of the US car companies gives me no pleasure. They largely did it to themselves, though, with their crappy quality (which gave the Japanese their opening to invade), to their embracing of mediocrity, the most glaring example of which was the wholesale switch-over to FWD. It was really sad to see once-proud Cadillac producing nothing but garbage with V8 engines hanging-out in front of the front wheels...
"Mike Hunter" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@ptd.net...
Do you also drive on what ever side of the road you feel like regardless of normal convention?
Top-posting makes your message incomprehensible to many of your readers. In normal conversation, after all, you don't answer to something that has not yet been said. For your edification, widely observed Usenet etiquette dictates that top posting is absolutely INAPPROPRIATE!
When you quote, you're doing it to provide context. Requiring your readers to scroll down and then back, repeatedly (as they attempt to figure out what the heck you're talking about), is a rather difficult way for you to make the context available. Providing the context up-front will get you better results. There's no way to build a threaded discussion with top-posting. Top-posting severely inhibits others from understanding the conversation, because the context of the conversation is out of order, as in broken. Replying at the top confuses your readers, making any point you're trying to get across very unclear without them scrolling down and back repeatedly, searching to re-integrate context. That extra, wholly unnecessary work leads to reader irritation, or worse, to readers just not bothering with your words at all. Since your object is to get your message across, help your readers follow by placing your words in context, not prior to the context. Doing otherwise, forcing your readers to go to extra work unnecessarily, is often irritating, sometimes interpreted as insulting, or in severe cases taken as attempt by you to show your "power". Any way you cut that, delivering your words in an hard to read manner doesn't help your case. Instead, post in-line to preserve context and respect your readers.
Why is Bottom-posting better than Top-posting By A. Smit and H.W. de Haan Below you can find our arguments why bottom-posting is better than top-posting.
An opinion should be based on facts. However, the observable facts are at odds with your own personal experience and you should learn to consider your experience carefully in light of other information.
This is a .Toyota group. A certain amount of pro-Toyota enthusiasm is to be expected. Your thinly supported personal anti-Toyota opinions are nothing short of obnoxious here. If you'd like to rant about Totyotas, go do it in the .GM or .Ford NGs. They'll appreciate it.
So I guess you know more than Chrysler chairman Lee Iacocca (master's in engineering), who's recollection disagrees with yours. Please explain why all mainstream minivans are now built on FWD platforms, even by companies that have suitable RWD chassis.
I can't believe Chrysler's K-car FWD vehicles cost 20% more simply because they were FWD. The development of the 2.2L engine had to do something with this.
Next time I speak to my friend Lido I'll ask him ;)
mike hunt
I know, but I wasted a half dozen in another futile effort to enlighten our fried DIZZY ;)
mike hunt
Whoa, I never said Toyota made crappy vehicles. I have always said they make great stuff. If in your opinion you think Toyotas are a better then buy one, I could not care less where you choose to spend your money.
However in my opinion Toyotas are over priced and underpowered compared to what else is available on the market. The Lincoln LSs, that I bought after I stopped buying Lexus V8, proved to be just a good but cost me many thousands less to buy and replace. The Mustang GT convertible that I purchased, with most of the money I saved by buying my first Lincoln LS, was much more powerful than the V6 Solaria convertible that would have cost me $5,000 more to drive home.
As to retail value it is true a used Camry has a higher retail value in three or four years, however the greater value is LESS than the extra premium a Camry cost when new. The fact is most domestics return a larger PERCENTAGE of their actual purchase price than do any of the import brands. Therefore domestics have greater return on the original investment for the average new car buyer in the US. The average new car buyer in the US replaces his vehicle with another new vehicle in three to four years with
45K to 60K on the clock.That is hard for most people in NG to understand because for the most part folks in NGs are used vehicle buyers or those that keep their vehicles till they die, if they do buy new. The average new vehicle buyer is not likely to be searching in a NG for a free or cheap fix for a older vehicle that now needs work as are the average guys in a NG ;)
When CR 'rates' vehicles they do in a 'list.' Naturally one will be on the top and another will be on the bottom of a list. If you look at what they are really saying it is that EVERY manufacture is making good reliable vehicles today and the rate of good to bad among them is within 1 1/2%, statically insignificant.
With my many years experience in vehicle manufacturing, retailing and fleet maintenance I am often asked what vehicle I would recommend. I tell them to find those that have a look that appeals to them then drive them all to decide which ONES best suits their needs, then buy the ONE that best suits their budget. In the end the only real difference among them all today is style and price. One need not pay a premium price to get a good dependable vehicle.
mike hunt
Whoa, I never said Toyota made crappy vehicles. I have always said they make great stuff. If in your opinion you think Toyotas are a better then buy one, I could not care less where you choose to spend your money.
However in my opinion Toyotas are over priced and underpowered compared to what else is available on the market. The Lincoln LSs, that I bought after I stopped buying Lexus V8, proved to be just a good but cost me many thousands less to buy and replace. The Mustang GT convertible that I purchased, with most of the money I saved by buying my first Lincoln LS, was much more powerful than the V6 Solaria convertible that would have cost me $5,000 more to drive home.
As to retail value it is true a used Camry has a higher retail value in three or four years, however the greater value is LESS than the extra premium a Camry cost when new. The fact is most domestics return a larger PERCENTAGE of their actual purchase price than do any of the import brands. Therefore domestics have greater return on the original investment for the average new car buyer in the US. The average new car buyer in the US replaces his vehicle with another new vehicle in three to four years with
45K to 60K on the clock.That is hard for most people in NG to understand because for the most part folks in NGs are used vehicle buyers or those that keep their vehicles till they die, if they do buy new. The average new vehicle buyer is not likely to be searching in a NG for a free or cheap fix for a older vehicle that now needs work as are the average guys in a NG ;)
When CR 'rates' vehicles they do in a 'list.' Naturally one will be on the top and another will be on the bottom of a list. If you look at what they are really saying it is that EVERY manufacture is making good reliable vehicles today and the rate of good to bad among them is within 1 1/2%, statically insignificant.
With my many years experience in vehicle manufacturing, retailing and fleet maintenance I am often asked what vehicle I would recommend. I tell them to find those that have a look that appeals to them then drive them all to decide which ONES best suits their needs, then buy the ONE that best suits their budget. In the end the only real difference among them all today is style and price. One need not pay a premium price to get a good dependable vehicle.
mike hunt
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