No thermostat

GBE lists things by line code. I'm not finding a nice catalog with pictures on the site. I'm not experienced enough to order things by line code and three-word description only. Are the pretty pictures in a Secret Location?

Oh ho. Your last shot "this engine has no flaps" looks like mine. I was wondering what those empty holes in the shroud were for. Now I know.

Well, it doesn't get real cold here, so I guess I'll just have to be satisfied with putting on the covers under the cylinders to help the engine stay cooler in summer. Darn I wish this engine had all the parts.

It's a family commuter car, so pulling the engine -- even if I knew how, had the tools, and had the space -- would not be real practical. I'd need the modern-day equivalent of an old-fashioned barn-raising, where a bunch of guys who knew what they were doing and had the tools descended on me to do it in a weekend. I could offer free beer, but I'm a vegetarian (it's a Buddhist thing) so the best I could do to match the traditional gift of hot food would be veggie burgers.

I've been on both ends of that barn-raising. It's kinda fun! The two of us would have flaps in your engine in an afternoon. With 3 people ... maybe the whole day. ;-)

Max

If you live in a warm climate, you can get away with out flaps or open flaps or no thermostat, I would be very careful about missing tin.

Even the tin under the heater boxes is important. As the engine blows the heat down these tins deflect it back out the back of the engine. with out ever those if in traffic you sit in a pool of heat.

As for the Brazilian engines. Well it is warm over there and maybe without the heater outlets you compensate for the missing flaps directing the air. Or the factory took some lessons from the American car manufactures and built in some planed obsolescence and figure in warm weather it won't matter much and they can save on some flaps and thermostats. Hay that adds up.

But the bottom line no matter how you arrive at it is that all the parts should be warming at the same time to compensate for the different metal expansion rates and an engine oil temp of anywhere between 180 f and 210f.

If you got that no problem. But when you live where the temps go from 100f down to below 0 f. You better have a thermostat. Joe

....................Yeck!

........You're the anti-shaggie!

In a type 1 engine, if you leave the flaps out completely, then the heads will not receive full cooling. The air flow follows the path of least resistance as someone already mentioned. That would leave the furthest corners of the heads with dramatically reduced airflow. The flaps, when fully OPEN, also form an air duct by CLOSING a section of the flow path along with teh help of the big, continuous head FIN so that any air that is blown through the last "flap" section, can ONLY go to the heads. Without the flap in place, this air would rather choose the easier route past teh cylinders and would never be forced to cover the entire head fin area. The air needs flow, and pressure, to reach all areas it was originally designed to reach. With enough backpressure (restrict teh flow of the *easiest* path) you can make the air flow at

90 degree angles. Not possible if you leave the flaps and bottom tin pieces out. (The clip-on pieces that get wedged between teh cylinder and head fins).

Jan

HAHAHAHAHAAH

"Bring your own steaks"

Jan

Jan I agree 100% but some of these guys have been running for years without the flaps and thermosat. I guess if you run a basic stocker you can get away with it. But than again you can own a car for 50 years and only run it for 5 miles a year. We missed how much mileage. Well what ever it is, they would go longer with the Thermostat and flaps. VW didn't make 60 million cars and have thousands of engineers working on them to put something in they did not need. Also I am sure it was improved upon in 70 years of study. There have never been a car studied more.

Joe

Your opinion is a commonly held one, but it's been pretty well refuted. For a more detailed explaination I suggest you buy and read the book below. There's a huge amount of good information here on all aspects of the aircooled VW engine and lots of good things for all of us to be aware of. Everyone who would like to think that he has a reasonable understanding of this engine should be well acquainted with this entire book. It's still in print, and for good reason.

How to Hotrod Volkswagen Engines by Bill Fisher published by H. P. Books, Tucson, AZ, 1970 ISBN 0-912656-03-4 (excellent book, well written and researched)

I believe Berg also has a paper on temp differences with and without the thermostat and flaps.

-

----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney snipped-for-privacy@vwtype3.org Madison, WI 53711 USA

-----------------------------------------------

and that we agree on...it will "go" fine without the flaps, but how long till it cracks at the exhaust ports from overheating? not worth it...once the thermostat, flaps, etc is installed it is basically "maintenance free" and costs you *nothing* i can't think of *ANY* good reason *not* to run them......but we have both stated our opinions and there is no use in "beating a dead horse" so lets let it go at we don't really see things the same... deal?

------------------- Chris Perdue

*All opinions are those of the author of this post* "Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug" reply take your PANTS off

And this whole thing has me feeling a bit discouraged right now. I got no thermostat, no flaps, it's a job no shop wants to deal with at a reasonable cost; I don't have the skills, tools or downtime to do the job myself. OH WOE IS ME!!!

I need a hug. Inge?

the parts are available...the tools are minimal(can you say a basic wrench set and a screwdriver?) and believe me, you *do* have the skills.....not a complicated vehicle to work on at all...as far as downtime for a beginer, dropping the engine, installing the needed parts and re-install is a saturday....

------------------- Chris Perdue

*All opinions are those of the author of this post* "Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug" reply take your PANTS off

It must be rough living in southern CA, so-called ACVW capital of the world. If Mike was in Colorado we would have this puppy whipped already! (Instead of playing on the computer all day!)

Come-on ramva! Gotta be somebody in SoCal that knows which end of the jack to pump!

Max

If somebody does want to step up to the bat, just give me a shopping list of the required parts and I'll get them on hand.

Most important are the two shutter (flap) assemblies themselves.

These guys: http://63.230.74.177/misc/flaps/MVC-001F.JPG There is also a tie-bar that connects the two in front of the shroud so that they open and close together. There are a couple flavors of this bar, but yours sounds like VW 043-119-289 in the Berg catalog. I fabbed my last one from aluminum stock. No worries about whether it will fit that way. And a general-purpose spring to hold them open and some nifty little fasteners. Tomorrow I'll take some pictures of the tie-rod fasteners you will need.

The flaps themselves are the only things you need the engine out for. They install into the shroud from the bottom, so the shroud has to come out. The control-rod will hang down between the fins in the 1/2 head and the thermostat can be attached at a later time.

From previous posts, it also sounds like you are missing the left side heater box air shield? It's an easy install when the engine is out.

If the Bergs don't have the flaps in stock, let me know. I got the ones in the picture from a different source.

Max

Not to sound like a nincompoop, but is there a step-by-step "Pulling Your 71 Bus's Engine for Dummies" guide?

And -- how much does that thing weigh? Can two guys pull it out? What do you put it on (we have to work in the street) once it is out?

(I can't believe I'm even contemplating doing such a thing myself...)

Mike:

Certainly can't say that this is the recommended way, but back in '77 when I put a new motor in my super beetle, I had four friends lift the back end up while I HELD the motor on my chest! They raised the car over the motor, then picked the motor up off my chest and put it on a pallet! Ahhhh, the good old days.

(For reference, I was a collegiate level shot putter and discus thrower, so the motor wasn't that bad!)

Larry '71 SB - "Herman"

you own the bently correct? there is a procedure there...

most vw people learn to do it themselves...i do...always have....

the ground? LOL....

and *I* can't believe you would contemplate farming it out...but i have always done my own work...every vw owner learns to pull the engine....you can put it off, but it is going to happen....and most of them laugh when they finally do because they can't get over how intimidated they were by the "thought" of it, when it was actually so simple....(speak up Scott H...LOL, shaggie you reading?_)

------------------- Chris Perdue

*All opinions are those of the author of this post* "Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug" reply take your PANTS off