anti Touareg sentiment

Whats the big difference from the 1970's Continentals, Cadillac De-Villes, Towncars, and Eldorados to todays Navigators, Expeditions, and Suburbans.... they all weigh close to 3 tons, they all have bad handling, they all drink gas like there's no tomorrow - the SUV's are just able to hold the same 7 people as those big pimp-mobiles in a proper seat and restraint system...

People who drive smaller cars have always been the minority in North America - whats the point of arguing about it now?? It's been the same forever, just the styling is a little different.

The first car my dad bought in Canada - a Volvo 142... that was a pretty big car for the money and the time period when he was living in Germany - and a lot bigger then his VW Beetle.... it was TINY by the standards over here with a small 4 cylinder that barely made maybe 100 horsepower. Because of him always buying smaller cars (Volvo 200, 700, and 900 series as the "big" car for when the whole family is together, and a small Audi or VW Golfs

85,91,99.5,03 for commuting/small trips with a couple people) I never gew up to like big cars either.... but none of my friends parents came for Europe and they all like these big cars - its CULTURE!!! nothing but.

Bullshit...they bought massive, gas guzzling station wagons with beautiful fake woodgrain sides and stacked the children in the back.

trips to the beach, mall, and Mammoth DO constitute a NEED if you are a healthy well adjusted person.

Wow, you luxury SUV drivers are some insecure folks. Might want to get that checked; I think Merck might now make a pill for that sort of thing. And how the heck does a long-term GTI pilot with a Jetta TDI lose their way and purchase a Touareg? Some sort of mid-life crisis? And yes, the Jetta TDI does meet my tree-hugging, empty-pocketed, leather conditioner phobic approval. Thanks very much for checking. But you don't need my approval...really...or do you? Oh, and thanks for the tip on the '66 Ford...sounds groovy, but I doubt I could afford it.

Oh, and let's not make light of leather conditioner phobias. That stuff can cause one heck of a rash when driving without pants. One more reason I prefer the cloth seats of my GTI.

Tell me you didn't write this compelling rebuttal with a straight face.

Hey Kent,

Did you walk to school in 5 feet of snow, every day, 367 days a year, uphill both ways?

Nope, but my dad did.

I like the image you stirred in my mind...kids being loaded like cordwood! Funny!!

We had a few of those wagons, but Dad never was too keen on the fake wood.

It isn't too far from the truth. I remember sitting in the back of big wagons when I was a kid in the 60's. 4 or 5 of us could fit back there. We all would have been shot out the window if there was ever a collision, yet here I am to talk about it.

While you are right that these may not be a "need", is "need" the only thing you look for in a car? Was each and every one of those 220,000+ miles (nice job by the way!) driven because they were "needed". I bet you, just like most folks, take a lot of trips that are for reasons other than need. If some like to make that trip in a vehicle that has fancy leather seats and a DVD player and such, who am I to judge. I live in a glass house...so I am not throwing any stones.

Kent, they constitute a need as much as just about any "need" considered in purchasing a vehicle--it's entirely possible to live without a vehicle at all, as millions of people across the planet do it every day. Some lifestyles, however, require a vehicle (including most US-based lifestyles). Once you accept that "need" for a vehicle is lifestyle-derived, it becomes a question of what vehicle is necessary to lead a particular lifestyle. In the case of the lifestyle described, something bigger than a Jetta is necessary; I will admit to being young enough to remember my father deciding on a Plymouth Grand Voyager for similar reasons--we were making regular trips to snow country, and we (i.e. my parents) wanted a vehicle that could comfortably accommodate two adults, two children, and the assorted crap that goes along with family travel. I recall that he paid for the upgrade from a bench to 'captain's chairs" (along with other associated trim upgrades about which he didn't care) simply to keep my brother and me separated during those trips.

Now, the question raised by a lot of family vehicle purchases is one of whether or not a given lifestyle requires a particular style of vehicle, ignoring the status-symbol issues associated with maintaining a given lifestyle. The practicality of some SUVs, in comparison with minivans or wagons, becomes quite questionable when a Suburban has the same number of seatbelts as a Voyager (er, or at least some member of the GM SUV family; I forget which is which). If you need the ability to tow really large stuff, then the seating difference might be less important than the towing capacity; if you do regularly carpool with several kids, the cargo space might be warranted (although a Passat with a Thule box might also suffice).

I think the issue that a lot of "SUV haters" have is the driver who purchases and regularly drives a full-size SUV without ever using the capabilities that would justify that purchase (i.e. filling it up with people and stuff, significant-duty towing, going into terrain where a car won't make it, etc), as well as a misunderstanding of when those capabilities are necessary (hint: I live in Vermont, I commute 30 miles each way to and from work, and I work at a ski area that receives a *lot* of snow each year as well as a fair amount of other road-disturbing weather; I don't need AWD or 4WD, although I would really like to have that option ten or twelve days a year; I did not get stuck at all last year driving a slightly lowered 1991 GTI).

It is quite true that old-style station wagons were a lot bigger in interior space than what we have available today in the station wagon space while also being less safe; however, I'd challenge anyone who claims that an old-school station wagon provided a better transport mechanism than a minivan. You might not be able to pile in as many passengers due to modern safety considerations, but the same is true of most SUVs (which also have other safety disadvantages such as balance and weight); if you need to carry more passengers, you should be looking at full-size vans (which the government has recently decided are unsafe because they don't handle like cars, but that's a mostly-separate issue; they're certainly not a lot, if any, worse than SUVs).

As far as the Toureg, I'd like to have one--it's got pretty good towing capacity (almost two A2s), good offroad capability (something a lot of SUVs lack off-the-shelf), and the build quality has gotten excellent reviews. On the other hand, I'd not be able to justify one; as I said, I'd only really use the AWD capability a few days a year, and I couldn't justify getting a uber-expensive SUV as an offroad toy, especially as I can't afford to pick up offroading as a new hobby to begin with.

--Kevin (who is now wondering why he bothered to wander into the thread anyhow)

Kevin, I agree with almost everything you said (including your sentiment regarding the wisdom of wandering into this thread).

Tony, you're absolutely right, my car means more to me than just utilitarian transportation. But I also clearly understand that the way I live, what I drive, and how I consume affects everyone around me. We all live in glass houses, if you will, and many of us are throwing rocks without any consideration for where they land. When I hear a 21 year old saying that group trips to the mall, beach, and skiing constitute a NEED, something needs to be said. The mantra "it's a free country" is being twisted to mean, "I do what I want, take what I want, everyone else be damned". This is a remarkably anti-social attitude from the same people that often profess to be so well-adjusted and sociable that they need a luxury SUV to cart around an ever-expanding circle of family and friends. You and I have every right to judge, we need to judge. Society makes collective judgments everyday, and they form the basis of our civil society.

I agree with what you describe as a twisting of the meaning of a "free country". There are a lot of selfish people out there. I am just not sure that driving an SUV is an accurate indicator if one is or is not selfish or anti-social. I am sure there are many cases where your assessment is dead on, but I am willing to bet there are as many where the characterization does not apply. I see plenty of people driving VW's, Hondas, and other small fuel efficient cars that exhibit extreme anti-social behavior by driving in a manner that puts others in danger. Few of us are not selfish in some manner, yet we are often quick to point out the faults of others. I am certainly guilty of this...perhaps you are not.

Does that GTI still have the original clutch? I parked my rabbit with 293,000 miles, but was proud that I got about 220,000 on the original clutch.

Agreed. As for my clutch, I'm currently in the process of replacing it for the second time, as one of the three metal clips on the release plate broke off, jamming it up. Odd failure I think. I replaced the original clutch at around 130,000 miles as a matter of routine maintenance since I had the car fairly well disassembled to replace the pedal bracket, shift linkage, catalytic converter, and various other bits and pieces. Once I pulled the original clutch out, though, it looked like it could have gone quite a bit longer.

Perhaps, but then again if what you're looking for is a vehicle to haul lots of people and stuff, the Touareg ain't it. The Touareg will carry four people, and some stuff, in leather-warpped comfort on- and (occasionally) off-road. If you want more cargo/people capacity, get a Suburban, or a minivan. If you need really serious rough-terrain capability, get a Land Rover or a CJ. Face it, man, the Touareg is sheer bling, no matter how you slice it. (Of course, that isn't to say that I might not have one, one day... ;-)

-- Mike Smith

That's 10 MPG on leaded fuel, in a carbureted engine, with no modern emissions controls. A 2004-model SUV is probably cleaner than 5 Vista Cruisers or Family Trucksters. ;-)

-- Mike Smith

Well, there is one difference - those Continentals and Eldorados weren't 8 goddamn feet tall, blocking everyone else's view of the road...

-- Mike Smith

And I'll bet he made sure you knew it, every single day. ;-)

-- Mike Smith

Man, I am hot and pissed off, I hate those people who can afford to purchase and eat chocolate ice cream. Who the fark do they think they are? Some of us think that full 100% fat ice cream is too expensive and is detrimental to the overall health of our society.

They should be made not to have a choice and eat tofu like the rest of us miserable frustrated folk who cant afford that luxury.

Hey dork, if you don't like the Touareg, DON'T BUY IT!

This country is based on FREEDOM first and EQUALITY second. We are all created equal, but don't end up that way after making choices and working hard. But we all have the freedom to choose. Just remember, liberals want to limit your freedom, why can't I have a toilet that works on only one goddamn flush?

./rant off