Tyres Question

Oh yes

Ok as much as I love a good argument :) I would love to see some real time footage of a car with ESP losing control on a bend, if your "theory" is correct this should be a piece of piss to find, as loads of people will have tried to "beat" the system.

All I am saying to you is this, I cannot in my car, I have not tried driving at 140mph and turned the wheel to see what happens because this would be stupid.

If you feel you can overcome the ESP on a car, in over zealous driving then you are welcome to your opinion, but in my experience it is pretty much impossible, although I am sure someone somewhere has managed it.

Now I must go feed this damn hedgehog that keeps coming in my garden. :)

dog food or chicken bones - don't give it milk.

Why? There'll be plenty of people who've crashed car with ESP installed.

I'll put things another way:

ESP won't get you round a bend that you're going too quick for.

Good tyres will get your round a bend at a higher top speed than crap tires.

You're a numpty if you buy shit tyres.

Night :D.

A good calculator has more computing power than the early space shuttles!

I'll spin it. No probs. Bet all the electrickery cant compensate for a good ol tug on the secondary steering lever! :)

Ha-ha another cheater :)

Nothing wrong with cheap tyres - myself and others here use them exclusively, and we've never had any issues.

How can they not be acceptable ?

Are you expecting to fall off the road once they're on the car, or something ?

I always use the cheapest W/Y/Z-rated tyres my local guy has instock, and they always work just fine.

Er, what ?

If you're driving so hard that you leave the public road, then something is VERY wrong with your driving ! Please don't ever come driving round North Yorkshire !

You'd think that wouldn't you :)

I've gone from sporty Dunlop and Michelin rubber, to random budget "Federals" and Hankooks on both the TI and the Pug, and neither made the slightest difference to when the ABS activated :)

Ask Fishman - he's currently running bargain-basement rubber on the (FWD with 200bhp) TI, and it doesn't struggle for grip unless you force it to.

Obviously these are all sports-rated low-profile tyres though - I have no idea what a budget set of H or V rated rubber is like. If they're s**te, then all the more reason to stick to the sports ratings.

in news:d46n4s$e1e$ snipped-for-privacy@news.freedomsurf.net, "doki" slurred :

I find this idea odd, 'cos engine braking is less significant in higher gears, so lift-off oversteer is most likely when on the limit of grip in a low gear. My expereince with my 205 confirms this - the only time I've got lift-off oversteer has been on damp roundabouts in 2nd gear.

Also, wouldn't the ESP simply apply brakes to induce understeer if it detected oversteer? I've never used an ESP system, and don't know how fast they can react.

It reacts in 40ms apparently a human can react in 300ms.

No problem - I've spun Volvos, Rovers, Mercs, MGs. And an Audi TT.

Both sides are making two different points.

Ronny, you're right in that under *normal-circumstances* the ESP won't let you spin - that's exactly why it's there. I can barrel into a corner in the Pug, stamp my foot on the brake whilst in mid-bend, and the ABS will activate, the ESP light will flicker on the dash, and I won't spin and die. I probably won't make the corner either, because the electronics are designed to let you steer above all else (ie, you don't really slow down much, because they're trying to use all the grip to make you go where the steering wheel is pointing) - if my speed is more than the corner requires, then I'll drift wide into oncoming traffic/walls/death.

But Steve and Doug and everyone else, are perfectly right in that you can still *MAKE* it spin if you really try. If I did the above, and rammed the wheel right round onto full lock whilst still barelling along at high speed, then I suspect the electronics wouldn't be able to sort it out - after all, the steering rubber would be pointing in completely the wrong direction :) The ABS/TCS/ESP systems can't defy the laws of physics - they merely distribute grip around the wheels, attempting to stop you breaking said laws. Let's say a given sharp bend, has a 40mph maximum. If you're going 60mph, you can't make the corner. Whether you have ABS/TCS/ESP/whatever - you still aren't going to make that corner at 60mph. The electronics can't give you

*extra* grip - they merely make better use (through distribution) of what is already there.

Ronny, you *can* spin your car :)

Simple.

Flat out, 3rd gear, jerk wheel right then left slamming brake for a moment to break traction and confuse the ESP / ABS system. It'll go 180.

Put it in a situation where there's next to f*ck all contact between one of the corners and the tarmac then it can apply the brakes all it wants but there's not enough friction between the tyre and the road to help.

Even if we fail. at least we'll wear out his cheap tyres trying...

Ever watch World Rally Championship? THeir cars are fitted with traction control etc which costs more than your entire car did brand new out of the showroom. Amazingly they still manage to spin out/oversteer/understeer even at low speeds.

Watch WRC in a fortnight.