I learned a few things along the way. Liberty and
If you honestly believe that, you haven't really done any serious (SERIOUS!) offroading with your Wrangler. I kid you not.
Jerry
-- Jerry Bransford To email, remove 'me' from my email address KC6TAY, PP-ASEL See the Geezer Jeep at
If a Ford is a 4, then I'd have to say a Jeep would be about a -20. Maybe the CJ a -10.
Note I'm note talking about off road capability - no arguments there - most Jeeps do well there. Note I say most Jeeps - the Liberty being the exception. Just plain reliability, mechanical, etc, the Jeeps fall apart.
Sorry to you Jeep lovers - just from my and every one I know experience.
Heh, I always have to laugh at the trolls.
I currently own both a Honda and a Ford and would switch those numbers.
No, because we've had the Ford for 2 years and it has been in the shop a total of about 7 days, and the Honda we've had since February and it was in the shop
32 days by April. See the "Lemon Law" thread.On 22 Nov 2003 06:45 PM, Jerry Bransford posted the following:
How many miles does your Jeep have on it these days, Jerry? Not to mention all of the hard wheeling. My brother's '97 TJ is over 100K now and the only problems he has had with it have all been self-inflicted.
---------------------------------------------------- Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email. Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
It's up to 128,000 miles now Del, not doing too bad at all for that many miles either. :) How's that winch doing? My TJ's issues are all owner-inflicted as well. ;)
Jerry
On 22 Nov 2003 08:23 PM, Jerry Bransford posted the following:
The winch is doing great although I haven't had to use it for self- recovery since the summer after I bought it from you, when I needed it twice for myself, and once for my brother's Jeep. Since then all I've used it for is pulling heavy objects around, like some buried chainlink fence that I dug out using the winch and a pull-pal, and the shed we moved about 50 feet uphill, plowing a swath the whole way (that brush needed cutting anyway). Had to chain the rear of the Jeep to a tree for that one. I tried to pull a stump with it last summer but it just moved the Jeep, and my '73 3/4 ton chevy which I had chained the Jeep to. Needed more chainsaw action. I moved to Los Anchorage a couple years ago and I just haven't been getting out 4 wheeling as much since then.
Hey that reminds me, there is an incoming Alaskan Jeeper heading for the southwest. My little brother just finished his masters degree at GWU/ NASA Langley in Virginia and is taking an aerospace engineering job in Tucson; he should be there sometime in January. I don't know if he'd be able to keep up with you guys on some of the trails you run, but he was talking about building the Jeep up more anyway. His current setup is a Tera 2T with 31" MT/Rs with lots of armor and a Warn like yours on a '97
4 cylinder TJ.---------------------------------------------------- Del Rawlins- del@_kills_spammers_rawlinsbrothers.org Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email. Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
Pure bullsh*t.
--
Stock, dude, did you get that part, it is a stock (including stock tires) wrangler.
I work for Halliburton, not DC. I have a Liberty, a Wrangler, and a Willys pick up, and Ford 600 tractor, 50 head of cattle and 200+ acres of land to keep an eye on. In the past, I have had a Willys forward control. Getting a jeep stuck is something (my wife thinks) I am pretty good at. As a consequense, I know a little bit about un-sticking one of them.
I planted this Wrangler down to the frame in mud on the way to the beaver dam back Christmas of 01. My wife, her sister and wife's brother in law were passengers and got to watch the festivities. Having to call Grandmother on the cell phone to bring a tractor and a winch pretty much demonstrates the limits of a (stock, get that part through your head) wrangler.
Now, like I said, Me and the wife and the 49 Willys (a real Jeep) beat the tulies all over south western Montana back in 80. Since then we have had all kinds of fun all kinds of places. For what it is worth, the Willys probablly would not have made it through there either.
Now on the other hand, fording the creek to get into the east pasture is a decent chalenge and a fair place to do a head to head comparison. It is 12+ feet deep, a mix of loose sand, mud, and big ruts that you have to pick the right line through to keep from high centering. It is just down and up, but it is a good place to make girls squeal. I drive both the liberty and the wrangler through there all the time to check on the cows. The liberty is a much more pleasant, secure ride. I think that it is all to do with the difference between selectrac on the Liberty as opposed to command trac on the Wrangler rather than ifs vs solid axel. I am sure it is not the Liberty's sun roof, but it might be the butt warmer.
I am starting to wonder though, am I the only one in this news group that has taken a Liberty off road? Mine is still pretty new and wife is quite possesive of it, but once the new wears off I aim to put
750-16 Farm Bureau mud tires all the way round on it and lock at least the rear and then start having a little 'real fun'.
I sure hope so. I agonized with the wife over the decision to resurect the wrangler after daughter with the purple hair totaled it. I need 80k of daily driven miles to see the kids through thier schooling. I am hopeful that the wrangler will hold up as well a willys.
Take your Liberty out there and see if it gets stuck any quicker.
Maybe the kind of off-pavement driving you do seems to give you the results you've experienced. I agree with Nathan that you haven't fully tested the capabilities of your TJ, stock or not. Getting it stuck once isn't a true test, IMHO. And for what it's worth I think the Liberty is more capable than most on this NG gives it credit for, but I think a stock TJ is still overall a superior off-road vehicle.
ive only seen 1 or 2 on the trail, and ive _never_ seen one on an "aggressive" trail such as tellico. aside from a toyota tacoma, im sure the liberty is comparable to most any IFS 4x4 on the market in terms of off road capability. that said, theres nothing "special" about it that would rank it even with the tj, arguably the most capable swb jeep ever built (stock). the clearance (for the wheelbase) is lacking (even before daimler lowered it
2 more inches in '02), the IFS components are "short arm" components..... to say its comparable to a wrangler says youve never pushed the tj to its limits. getting stuck in the mud isnt a true test of off road prowess. run them both through the rubicon trail (without stacking rocks) and tell me theyre even. i realize trails such as that are a minority and very few ever see them, but its the capabilities on those very trails that sets jeep apart from the other soft-roaders.
troll
welcome to killfile land
With the XReas on the new 4 runner, it's almost impossible to make it roll over. Also, they made other safety adjustments.
Let's look at reliability. Look at jdpower.com and compare long term reliability tests of 4 runner vs. explorer. vs jeep grand cherokee. Toyota always comes up on top. Also, I have friends that racked over half a million miles on their 4 runners. This is something American made SUVs just do not do. I think the original poster would be better of spending a little more to get better quality.
Don't get me wrong, Ford's F150 is a fairly reliable truck, and Ford is trying hard to gain. However, current Jeeps and Chrysler products are spinning their wheels.
Look at jdpower.com - facts do not lie. 2002 Jeep Wrangler, 2 out of 5 stars for mechanical quality. 2 out of 5 for mechanical reliability. These numbers do not lie. Jeep is a great name, Chryco managed to turn it into crap. I used to be a jeep fan, until a jeep left me stranded once too many times.
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