Hey Guys, long time no post. Good to see that a lot of the regulars are still here. My son needs a car, his first, and I've thinking about buying him a Grand Cherokee. While I can quote you chapter and verse from the book of TJ, I don't know much about the Grands.
I do know that I'm looking at the 93 - 98 models. The Jeep will mostly be used for getting to school and various errands. He and I will be putting on a mild lift and doing some of the easier Moab trails.
Questions Which years should I look for/avoid? Gas mileage, how bad is it? Is the gas mileage for the 6 better than the V8? Transfer cases options and any to avoid? How does the Grand do in accidents?
Well, you know the Chrysler-derived Wrangler automatic -- the GC unit is from the same family of transmissions. I don't see the same failure rates with Wranglers as with heavier OD vehicles, but I'm not a fan of the transmission -- the fact is that Dodge didn't have the time or money or motivation to develop a new OD transmission back in the day, so they took the 727 3-spd, slapped on what amounts to an auxiliary OD unit, and milked the idea. Transmissions aren't rocket science, so that should be fine...right? Well, the bottom line is that it didn't mature into a very reliable package -- 100K is a blessing on a factory unit. Having said that much, when they work, they work well. Up to '96 is a mechanically governed setup, rebuilds are a couple hundred cheaper than an electronically governed setup (96+). Not 100% on the date, someone can verify.
Same logic goes for the V-8: a tried and true soldier with a new set of boots. The bad news is that the Magnum-engine head castings are prone to cracking at the valve seats, it's worth having the coolant tested for the presence of combustion gases. Aftermarket replacement heads are popular and not too pricey, go to
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to see their solutions for heads as well as intake leaks.
I understand that every vehicle has its own share of problems, but the prospect of spending -- oh, say, $2500 if you do it yourself -- out of pocket just to keep it driving....on something that is sure to have
100k on it already....well, that seems like a deal-buster to me.
[YES lesser quality Asian heads are available at half the price, and YES if you are a great shopper you can get this tranny rebuilt and installed for $1100, so that's only a $1600 gamble......but that is definitely a bottom-bin parts affair]
I don't know much about the Grands, even though I had a '93, but is this accurate? The XJ's AX4 automatic is known to be a pretty reliable transmission, and it seems to me it would have made more sense since they already had an OD unit in the lineup they would have used it instead of reengineering a Wrangler 3-speed.
I was picking up the conversation from his TJ perspective -- so, before that point: Chrysler steps in, and puts their transmission into Jeeps -- why pay someone else? Jeeps get the 3 speed version because the aformentioned OD "add-on" makes for a ridiculously long transmission.
Don't quote all the digits, but this is my understanding: A-727 > 727 w/lockup > A-518 (4sp) > 4xRH > 4xRE .....A-518 might be the old name for 4xRH
But don't take my word for it:
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And [oops] I do see that early 1993 4.0 GCs have the Aisin unit.
Ok so the ZJ has a dog's breath transmission. Which probably explains why so many of the used one's I'm looking at proudly advertise their newly replaced transmissions. Is the design basically flawed or have the issues been fixed so that a replacement transmission can be counted on to last for a good while?
Dean Check out my web site 6bargrill . com. The url is a complete rip-off of Nate's 7slotgrill, but I couldn't come up with something I liked better.
I've got another question related to the variations on the full time transfer cases. Can the transfer case be locked into an off-road only mode? How reliable are they? Is one flavor better than any other? (better is defined reliable, and can be locked for off-road use)
In article , Dean wrote: #I've got another question related to the variations on the full time #transfer cases. Can the transfer case be locked into an off-road only #mode? How reliable are they? Is one flavor better than any other? #(better is defined reliable, and can be locked for off-road use) # #tia #Dean #
Well, with the standard "opinion" disclaimers, the design isn't flawed to the degree that you see catastrophic failures .... just premature ones. A few sources cite insufficient lubrication to some bearing or clutch...but if someone popped for a transferable warranty, you're in like Flynn. What I do understand follows:
-- sensitive to proper transmission fluid
-- prone to governor pressure solenoid/sensor failures
-- [some models] prone to torque converter [clutch] failures, fouling coolers with debris
-- the so-called "anti-drainback valve" catches torque converter debris and clogs/sticks, blocking fluid flow to the transmission "operating system"
-- people fuss about a lag after starting, then shifting from park into gear, as this model doesn't circulate fluid through the torque converter in park....generally caused by some worn [not to a fatal degree] component that I didn't bother to catalog in my head.
-- rebuild components aren't crazy expensive, but the O/D unit, which does fail, comes in around 3 bills:
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Now that I've done my share of raining on the machine, I'd like to hear from others how they think a GC fares off-road.
Interior and grille/bumper were redesigned in '96. Earlier ones are ugly.
My '96 5.2L would get 20mpg on the highway. That was with the Goodyear Wrangler AT/S's aired up to about 45 PSI. With a lift and offroad tires it'll probably be a lot worse.
I've heard that it's so close that it's not worth the loss in power.
The full time unit is known for problems with the viscous coupler but I had no problems with mine (130k miles).
I saw one that had gone off an overpass backwards and landed ass first on the the road below. The doors would still open and close. Most other cars would crush like a beer can. The flip side to lousy gas mileage is that it's 4000+ pounds of crashworthy steel.
Only downside as a first car is that it holds so many passengers.
OK this will show how twisted I've become, but 20 mpg on the highway doesn't sound that bad.
Are the transfer cases interchangeable between the Wrangler, Cherokee, and Grand? Just thinking if there was a problem it might be easier to swap in another from the junk yard rather than repair the viscous coupler. But, it may not even be an issue, depending on what the Jeep I buy has.
And that my friend is exactly why my wife and I thought "lets get a Grand Cherokee for his first car." I know he'd prefer a car with better gas mileage, but I've seen how the kids drive around the high school. Frankly I think his mom would rather he drive a Peterbilt.
I can't figure out why my '96 V8 would do 20mpg but the '99 V8 I replaced it with gets 15mpg. In between those two I had a 2002 Dakota mid-size truck that sucked fuel at 12mpg. Why don't newer cars get better mileage? I will never buy another full size car that isn't better than 25mpg. No more Jeeps, I guess.
The viscous coupler is expensive to fix. If it breaks, it's probably no big deal to replace the whole transfer case with a part time unit. Probably have to swap the front axle as well. Grand Cherokees must be the most common vehicle on the road at the moment so boneyard parts should be cheap and plentiful.
My parents put me in a full size standard cab Ford truck. That's exactly what my kids will learn to drive in. I don't care that it gets 10mpg and gas will be $10/gallon by then.
I've got the full-time capable NP242/NV242. It gives you full-time 4wd, part-time (offroad) 4wd-high, part-time 4wd-low, and plain old 2wd, along with a true neutral for towing. Also available on the ZJs was a standard part-time (same as above but with no full-time 4wd) which is probably more reliable than what I have. Later models had an all-wheel-drive option that selectively sent power to any wheel that needed it, and the newest GCs (WK series) only have this option or standard 2wd IIRC.
BTW, don't be scared off of the NP242 just because I'm having to replace mine. The dumbass who owned it before me never did any maintenance and now I'm suffering the consequences. You MUST do the 36,000 tranny and transfer case maintenance religiously or you will lose one or both within
100k miles, much sooner if you do any offroading at all. Change the fluids, and on the tranny, change the filter and adjust the bands if needed.
Thankfully I can't answer this one firsthand, though from what I've seen they fare well for their class of vehicle. They're quite the tank.
Not to dissuade you from the GCs, but I sometimes wish I'd saved a few thousand bucks and bought that '90 XJ Cherokee Sport I had looked at first. The guy scared me off the deal though because he absolutely refused to let me drive it, even so much as down his driveway and back. I'm sorry, but I'm not buying it if I can't test drive it. However, I've spent close to $2500 in repairs (mostly due to the previous owner's negligence) on the Grand when I might have been in for about half that on the XJ I looked at, if any at all (I still think the guy was just kooky and not sneaky). Oh well, hindsight and all. Anyways, good luck to you.
Morgan
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Argh, usenet ate the first part of my post. Here's what got left out:
I've heard bad things about the WJs ('99-'04). I know a few people with them and for the most part they are less reliable than the older and newer generations. Then again, my '96 has given me its fair share of problems.
I get 20-22mpg highway, about 18mpg city with my 4.0L. I've heard here and elsewhere that the V8 is not much worse, so go for power over mileage if you've got the money.
See above. :)
Sorry for the split post; I'm still learning this new usenet client.
Morgan
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