Interesting thread, this.
Just to throw my particular brand of breadcrumbs on the water, I once -twice-had rear axle bearing failure that was (eventually) traced to an electrical problem of all things. And all crdit to my brother in law who thought outside the box tocome up with the answer.
Mike
BTW, it wasnt a jeep, it was a 72 victor FE
Do you know what flat rate means? It means you'll get paid the same even if you work on it for twice as long as you're getting paid for to fix it right, so where's the incentive?
A clearer definition of flat rate:
If the rate manual gives four hours to do a particular job, for an arbitrary figure. You take eight hours. You get paid for four hours, and if it comes back for defective workmanship, not a part failure in the allotted warranty time.
Guess what? you fix it for free!
So in essence, a flat rate technician is most likely the technician you want working on your car!
Employers are very leery about putting shoddy or inexperienced technicians or butchers on flat rate!
The End.
Refinish King
Flat rate books were written for a reason:
to give technicians an estimated time that it would require to do the job.
If a technician is proficient, and beats it. Should he be penalized?
The customer asks how much?
The customer is told 4 hours at $50.00.
If it takes 10 hours, the customer gets to slide, but if the job goes well. The business owner gets dorked?
Where's the incentive to be in business?
You must be a trolling customer, who wants it all, a guarantee that he will get it cheap, and none of the things that can go wrong on the job. Flat rate, you win some and lose some!
Refinish King
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Then you were a victim:
I ran an honest shop, and even cut time off of flat rate for seniors and people of less privilege. So before you come out of the gate asking me who the hell I think I am? I'm an honest shop operator, nothing like the ones who took advantage of you.
I refuse to be compared to the grease monkey image you speak of, when I took time to help the local action groups and churches with the poor that needed their cars fixed, in order to find jobs, I treated customers fairly and paid for training for my employees so they would "Do the job right the first time" plus quicker!
Maybe you got screwed, but not by me!
So if you have a bone to pick, go to the source that stuck it to you, not the one who gave you an accurate description.
With kind regards,
Refinish King
Jeeps don't start to fall apart until the day after the warranty expires.
I don't know what magical book they showed you but all the flat rate manuals I have read are HEAVILY in the customer's favor. .2 hours to change brake pads, christ it takes that long to get it on the lift.
times my labor rate!
To charge different customers, a different labor rate is illegal.
Unless you set up an account with a large fleet or a used car dealer.
How can you charge one customer four hours to do a heater core, and another four hours to do brakes?
Are you on crack?
Refinish King
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LOL
If they last till the warranty expires you mean?
Refinish King
PS I managed a Dodge/Chrysler/jeep body shop and helped the inept service manager in service. So I know first hand of the Dakota 4Wd differential failures that Mopar wouldn't cover, and all of their wonderful business philosophies.
Sincerely,
Refinish King
Not to mention the sintered wheel nuts and studs:
Which they recommend we don't lubricate, and Anti-Seize has been proven time and time again to not attract dust!
Refinish King
I worked at a dealer:
I averaged $1800.00 a week on warrantee work only!
Refinish King
Bill: Here we go again Bill with the half-true generalities. What do you mean by "normal labor rates". If you refer to the dealer's posted retail labor rate, then your statement "none of the auto manufacturers-----" is completely untrue. The manuf. rate for warranty reimbursement can be up to and even above the retail rate IF HE MEETS THE QUALIFYING LEVEL FOR TRAINING ETC. SET BY THE MANUFACTURER. If he doesn't, his reimbursement rate will be lower. In fact in some areas, by law, the reimbursement rate for warranty work must at least be at the retail level. Concerning time, the manuf. Labor Time Guides are there for a guide to time for retail use and serve as the time allowance for warranty use. They are time studied by the manuf. using ALL HAND TOOLS then a approx. 30% allowance for incidentals added before being published. Time study records are available from all manuf. to support their times. In fact the retail Mitchell Manuals, so often used by the shops to support their incompetence, are based on the manuf. times plus 30-40% to make them attractive to the retail shop repair business. Half-truths can be dangerous in this business. Bob
Bill: Your comment said NONE of the manuf.----- I indicated that is not true and gave you a quick primer on how those reimbursement rates are arrived at and how they are used. How DC reimburse their dealers specifically depends on their local (State or Provincial) laws (if any) and the dealer's specific qualifications. There may be some dealerships where, in fact, their reimbursement is at a labor rate higher than their posted retail labor rate (if you believe that flat-rate is a rip-off, try combining a higher than retail warranty labor rate with a straight time shop!!!) Bob
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