The time has come (lift questions)

I've heard nothing but good things about OME.

Not personally, but again, I've never heard anyone say anything bad about OME.

Does the OME kit include one (I think it does)? I'd be willing to bet yes, it is necessary. I ended up having to drop my transfer case about

Hmmmm again, no personal experience here, but with the hardtop plus the accessories you plan on adding, my inclination would be to lean toward the heavy.

Need? No, I don't think so. Although I do think you would possibly benefit if you did. That said, if it was my rig, I'd leave the stockers on, and if they *did* twist out of shape, *then* I'd consider replacements.

Dunno.... the bumpstops are to keep the shocks from over compressing, and considering OME includes the shocks, in theory they probably wouldn't over compress since they don't find a need to include the front stops in their kit. However, they may not take into account that you may have your front swaybar disconnected, so front bump stops may be a good idea. I know I like the fact that I have fronts anyway.

Under optimum conditions, yes. But probably not really necessary with a lift of this size. Kinda like the LCA's in my opinion... would be nice, but not a 'must have' with a lift of 2" or so.

Not that I can think of.

I'd stick with the OME, especially if your location in NZ affords you a better price on it than other brands. Like I mentioned before, I've never heard anything but raves regarding them.

Every advertisement I've seen here in the US says that OME lifts accommodate a maximum of 31x10.5 tire. Never understood that... I think you'd be fine with 32x10.5's as you mention.

Dave

Yes.

I have the shocks. Nice. Bar pins retainers can be problematic though.

Yes. Try it without first to experience drive line vibration.

Not sure. Heavy will be very harsh if you don't need it.

Longer LCAs will restore a good caster angle and most aftermarkets are much stronger than the OEMs. Aftermarkets will usually have better joints for more flex.

Yes. 2" in front, 1.5" in rear.

Probably not enough lift to worry about extending the links, but adjustable JKS Quickers or similar would be nice for the front.

I would think you would want to drop or re-drill the track bar bracket on the front too, but you may only be out by an eighth without it.

Extensions for brake lines & axle breather tubes. Make sure your slip yoke arms don't bind the shaft at full rear drop. Don't forget to do a front end alignment after the install.

Heavy-duty adjustable track bars and control arms would be a nice add-on. Better joints for more flex and adjustability for fine tuning, especially if coil spacers are in your future.

Go OME and supplement as required/desired.

Steve

Thanks. My comments are inline as well.

Great.

Good to know.

I can chose not to get the kit. But if I do need it, its relatively inexpensive and easy to install. I have a Dana 44 rear with 3-spd automatic tranny.

It would have been great to hear from somebody who is running heavy setup.

Whats the worst that can happen if I do twist one of the LCA out of shape on a trail? Would I be able to drive back? I do like your logic.

Okay.

I am thinking about putting front disconnects for trail use. But what about on-road driving? I personally think the lift would put some strain on the sway bar links.

I am relieved.

Its more a case of local support in case things don't go as planned and I need to use my rights under the warrantee.

Its all so confusing.

Thanks for all your input.

TW

I am replying inline.

Do you recommend using one of those bar pin eliminator kits? I think I have read a writeup where the guy did use it on OME shocks.

I'll take my chances and see what happens. I can use the money, if saved, somewhere else.

I don't want extremely harsh ride. But I want it to be firm. What I really don't want to end up with is a feeling that you get on boats.

One of the guys in our club is somehow associated with Chrysler suggested that I can probably use the LCAs from a Grand Cherokee. Would they fit and be helpful?

Am I correct to assume that the total bumstop should be 2" front and 1.5" rear? Or is it that the extension to existing bumstops should be 2" front and 1.5" rear.

I have been thinking about the disconnects in the front. Is there a front track bar relactor bracket in the market somewhere? I'll try on the internet and see what turns up.

I didn't think of the tube extensions. Good one.

Thanks Steve for all your input.

TW

Yes, but you can probably live without it. The purpose of the BPE is to prevent lateral shock motion on the bar pin. The circlips that hold the OME shock on its bar pin are prone to pop out. Install them carefully with a few drops of Loctite or tack weld the washer to the bar pin for a cheaper alternative to the BPE.

With your relatively longer D44 pinion, your angle will be quite steep and it's almost a sure bet you'll get at least some vibration. Even if vibration is not an issue, dropping the rear of the tcase will keep your u-joints from failing as soon as they would otherwise. If you want to save money, go to the hardware store and get 4 longer bolts and a stack of washers for each.

Get the heavy springs front and rear. Until you get your winch in front and all your jacks, tools, spares, supplies, etc. in the rear, your ride will be very firm but not harsh. Articulation may suffer somewhat when you're unloaded, but overall, firm is good.

No.

Yes, you want a net increase of 1.5" and 2". There are several designs. Some insert a spacer between the frame and existing bump stop. Some insert in the middle of the stop. You can also buy longer bump stops to completely replace the stock ones. On my XJ front I have a 2" high 'puck' that bolts on the bottom perch inside the coil.

Definitely get disconnects. I love my JKS Quickers.

Front track bar relocation not strictly required at 2.5" lift - your axle will be off center by only a fraction of an inch. If you do decide your stock track bar is too short, consider investing in an adjustable one instead of wasting money on a fixed bracket. Dropping the bracket keeps your axle centred, but it limits articulation. A heavy-duty adjustable with better joints is the ideal solution (front and rear) and lets you increase lift height in future with no loss of performance. Same goes for control arms - let you fine tune caster and pinion angles for any lift height

Steve

My Turn! My answers are inline as well. I helped a friend install an OME 2~3" kit on his TJ recently, and have opinions both on the quality from an install standpoint, and from a ride standpoint based on what he's told me. I've been grilling him about the ride, because I'm in the middle of recommending the kit to another friend on a budget (with an offer to help him install it), and wanted to make sure I was recommending a truly good kit.

As stated, I've heard nothing but good things about it. The quality of the parts looked good to me. I was especially impressed with the care and thought put into the bar pins for the shocks as compared to the cheap bar pins used in my crappy Pro-Comp ES3000 shocks.

A couple good friends are currently running this kit, one with additional space for 33" tires provided by a body lift kit, the other being the one I mentioned helping install the kit. They both like the kits very much. The guy I helped install it says the ride is much better both on and off-road.

You have a few choices here. One, the drop kit. Two, a Motor Mount Lift or Motor Mount spacer. Some MMLs require a body lift, which you may not want to do. I do know the friend I helped install the OME kit on did the JKS Motor Mount Spacers (essentially rectangular blocks of metal that go under the existing motor mounts to raise them) without doing a body lift, and had no clearance issues. The MML allowed him to get away without dropping the T-Case skid plate; the angle change in the driveline provided by lifting the motor mounts alleviated the rear driveline u-joint angles just enough to cure the vibes he got after installing the kit. The final choice is, if you're lucky, not needing either of these remedies. I wouldn't hold out too much hope for being that lucky though. Of course, Murphy tends to follow me around with a sledge hammer whenever I'm doing anything having to do with the Jeep ;-) My friend did try to get away without the MML at first, but got vibes. He was very happy that (a) he didn't need the body lift to install the MML, and that (b) it fully cured the vibes for him.

The friend I helped install the OME lift got the heavy setup. He has no winch, just a slightly heavier aftermarket rear bumper. Still stock up front. His jeep looks good, rides well, and sits pretty much level (at least eyeballing it...I haven't measured it exactly). Also, by going with the heavy, he has capacity for future mods, without them allowing as much sag as the light setup would assuredly have. He is still measuring 3" of lift off the kit; this may have something to do with him going with the heavy duty springs.

If the LCA just twists out of shape but holds it structural integrity, you'll be fine. If it tears or breaks, or somehow buckles, you'll have more trouble. The lower control arm does the heavy grunt work of keeping the axle in place front to back. The upper control arm will help, but that lower control arm really needs to be there and structurally sound to keep the axle in place. I have torn a control arm mount off my axle on the trail; the way I got home: I chained the axle to the front bumper towhook to keep the axle from traveling backwards when it hit a bump while I drove forward. I made a point of never backing up. It got me home, but I'm not sure how particularly wise it was for me to drive it on the highway with the right front part of axle being held in place largely by just a chain ;-) That said, I doubt a twisting of your stock LCA would cause a catastrophic failure like what I had; it would just weaken your control over that axle, and you would likely still be able to limp home without too much trouble.

The OME kit we installed just had the rear bumpstop extensions, not the front. I don't know if this is a bad call, but I think it's likely ok. He's done ok so far. You could fully compress a front shock, measure it, then measure the approximate distance between shock mounting points that would occur with the stock front bumpstop contacting the bottom of the spring pad. I think part of the reasoning could also be that the spring, with its greater number of coils, would simply not allow itself to compress enough to exceed the compression minimum of the front shocks.

Technically the swaybar should be level. But seeing as the lift isn't that great, I'm sure you'll be fine until you put on some proper length disconnect-style links. After all, the swaybar does nothing to "support" the axle; it just provides a connection between the two ends of the axle. It will still do its job even if it's not parallel to the ground at the link attachment points. It just might not be quite as smooth a ride in the process, and will restrict articulation further than a properly positioned swaybar (which doesn't matter if you're gonna fully disconnect it off-road anyway).

With the t-case dropped and/or the MML (motor mount lift) installed, you should be ok drivetrain-wise until your planned SYE/CV tailshaft conversion. The diff gearing will definitely be nice, too, but you'll be able to live easily until your planned time to do this. Other than that, I would recommend some upgrades to skid plating. I can't tell you how much use I get out of my steering box skid (best $40 I've spent on my Jeep). As you get more confidence and do harder trails, it helps to protect the oil pan as well. Also, while the rear gas skid is adequate for what most people do, mine has gotten crushed pretty good to this point. Getting an aftermarket thicker one is definitely high on my priority list. Finally, that front diff cover keeps wacking stuff. I have just recently ordered a cage to protect it. People often overlook these things, or think that because they have a lift they won't hit this stuff anymore; problem is, you get a lift, find you are more capable, and end up trying harder lines, and so still smack these same vulnerable parts into the rocks or what have you. Granted, my off-roading is largely based on rock-crawling; if yours is not, these sorts of skid plating additions may not be as important.

If you can get the OME locally, with a 2 year warranty, I see no reason not to get it. It's a very good lift for someone who wants to stay moderate, or is on a budget. It's also the best you can do without being forced into a very fast string of mods to "fix" things that the lift geometry messes up.

My friend with the OME kit is running 31s. With the amount of space he has, he could probably do 32s without too much worry about rubbing. The guy with the OME kit plus 1" body lift is running 33s with no problem. The guy with the 33s is running a 11.5 width; the guy with the 31s is running 10.5 width tires.

I hope that helps you in your decision.

Good luck, Bob

Great, that means if the bar pins give me trouble later, I can do BPE later.

I can use the BPE budget for this and then take it off once I go with SYE in future. I know I'll be sacrificing some clearance, but I can't have everything and stick to my budget.

I don't mind firmer ride (than stock, anyway) but I don't want my fillings falling out as well. I think I'll go with the heavy springs and take my chances. I know at some stage I will be getting ARB front and rear bumpers (also available locally) and winch and proper spare tyre carrier.

OME kit comes with rear bumpstops. I was just wondering about the front ones. I think I'll go with them as I am running 32 inch tyres.

With the OME lift, should I go with the 0-2 inch variety or the 2.5-4 inch variety for the JKS?

I have been looking at the prices and the BDS front and back adjustable track bars would be around USD 250 total. I just need to find a local supplier. I think I'll stick it out with LCAs and stock track bars and then move to adjustable one as budget allows.

Thanks Steve for all your great input.

TW

I'll go with OME bar pins and hope they don't give me trouble.

I just got new tyres a month ago, so I'll just wait for them to wear out and restart the whole process (I am not telling my wife though).

Wouldn't the MML ever so slightly increase my centre of gravity even higher? The t/c drop kit comes with the OME kit. So I guess I can use it till I go to SYE.

I am now inclining towards heavy springs as well.

I really hope I don't get to use this trick, but I'll leave the stock ones on for now.

I have 32 inch tyres. I think doing the front ones as well will be safer for my fenders and tyres.

I'll change to longer disconnects to compensate for the increase in height.

The trouble with buying skid plates for me is that I am in New Zealand and we have RHD TJs. Off the shelf US made steeting box skid plates don't fit. I know some manufacturers are now doing RHD versions as well. But then we don't have many hard rock trails (just a few). Mostly its mud (normal and clay variety) and grassy slopes (which are extremely slippery).

Thanks.

Thanks Bob. Its a question of negotiating a price with the local supplier now. I can do it because he imports it from Australia and I can play forex parity changes with him for a better price. I have next week off work so I'll go and see what happens.

TW

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Heard VERY VERY GOOD things about them. If they had a taller lift I would have gone with it when I first lifted my TJ.

Those I know have liked them, those that have changed them out is due to needing more lift than that.

Go with the heavy then. You will need it in the long run.

Probably not in your case.

Yes.

More music to my ears.

I just got new tyres and this lift and tyres combo should last a couple of years for me to gain more experience and then decide whether I want to go any higher or stay with this setup. At this stage, its my daily driver as well so I have to be moderate in my insanity.

Thanks.

Thanks for your comments, they are much appreciated. I am not prepared to dedicate one vehicle to trail use only at this stage. As such, everything (including my budget) has to be in moderation. May be in 2/3 years things might change.

TW

Get JKS#2001. Fits 2.5" - 6" lift on a TJ. You'll use the links adjusted to their shortest height and this should put the anti-sway bar arms at the preferred angle of +10 degrees with your 2.5" lift. As you add more weight and your springs sag over time, you'll still be within the recommended limit of +15 degrees:

Steve

I suppose one could argue that it would EVER so SLIGHTLY increase the COG, but not enough to matter, IMHO. I liked the MML idea since it allowed him to keep his t-case skid at stock height so that the belly clearance gained by the lift kit wasn't simply negated by dropping the t-case skid.

He got his OME lift from a mail-order place here in the U.S. called DPG offroad. The kit he got included the MML and BL, instead of including a t-case drop kit.

I'm sure either way will work for you, though, and since you do plan on doing the SYE in a reasonable amount of time, it's not a big deal.

Hey, no problem man. Hope it helped. ;)

Thanks Steve for all your valuable input. It probably has saved me from blowing my budget.

Do you have any recommendations for how to extending the rear anti-sway bar linkage? I don't want to completely disconnect front and rear at the same time.

TW

I am not a big fan of BL. I have looked at the DPG Offroad kit now. I think I can build mine (mix'n match) with the local ARB/OME supplier as well. He seems knowledagble about Jeeps (he drives a lifted Cherokee and his wife had a lifted TJ that they have now sold to somebody in our club). I'll try to go over on Monday and have a chat with him for getting everything sorted (I have next week off work).

Can I use adjustable cam bolts in the rear to adjust my angles a little to eliminate possible vibes?

My plan was to do things in batches (order depends on pricing and availability of funds):

• Tyres / lift

• SYE / 4:1 low t/c ratio / rear CV drive shaft

• Diff re-gearing / air lockers

• Winch / front bumper

• Rear bumper / tyre carrier

This should keep me busy in the next couple of years, and then the process starts again :-)

You guys have helped me a lot in the past and I am sure I have saved a lot of money and time by not making the same mistakes :-)

TW

Sounds like you've got a pretty good plan going there.

I originally didn't like the BL either, but a friend has one, and it's not all that bad; I'm thinking about putting one on my TJ soon, and going to 35s (I already have a 4" susp. lift).

FWIW, though, my friend didn't actually need to install the BL to fit the JKS 1" MML spacer. I don't see why that wouldn't work for you as well (his is a 1998 TJ; he doesn't have an AC, though, if that would make a difference).

I am almost 100% positive there are no cam bolts for the rear control arms. Only the front ones have them. (Jeep obviously didn't see any reason we might want to change our pinion angles; after all, no one who buys a Wrangler ever changes the driveline angles, right? LOL) So, if you had to change the rear pinion angle for vibes, you'd probably be looking at changing either your upper, lower, or both, control arms in the rear (I just changed only my lowers with adjustable ones way back when). The friend how did this OME lift that I keep referencing, however, didn't change any of his control arms, and after putting in the MML spacer, says it's riding fine, with no vibes; so it may be that you will have the same experience. Who knows, though, with the way one hears about no two jeeps being built exactly the same from the factory ;-)

Good luck. Sounds like a good plan for the future build of your jeep, and a lot of fun. (I wish I'd have had the money to do the 4:1 kit on my 231 when I installed my SYE, too. Also, if I could do it over, I'd have put in the tera 2-low kit then as well. Can't tell you how many times I wished I could just run in 2wd while in low-range, especially for situations of high-traction where I need to turn, but still need to crawl, such as Moab sandstone slickrock ;-) )

/Bob

Thanks Bob. I do have air-con, don't know how much of a difference would that make if do go with MML spacer. Knowing myself, if I do the t/c drop I will be mentally anxious to get it back up as soon as possible (so this might work out better in the end).

I am planning on visiting the guy in the next couple of days to finalise things. I was just going to order front disconnects, rear extensions and cam bolts (rear) to go with the lift to make things even.

Cheers, TW