FS: S3 109 FFR

On or around Tue, 12 Oct 2004 21:19:43 +0000 (UTC), "Someone" enlightened us thusly:

's not tax exempt, unfortunately, not if it's made in 1973. 's got to be

No - note the post - it is TAX *and* MoT exempt. It is registered as a fire engine!

Doesn't it have to be capable of use and actually used as such to be tax exempt, plus made available to the emergency services in some manner? My 101 is registered as an ambulance, but it is neither tax nor MoT exempt.

It doesn't have to be available in the same way that company private engines are not.

Ambulances are never MoT exempt - even from brand new they need one. For ambulances the rules are that it must carry a stretcher case and be used as an ambulance - no popping out to do the shopping. Also for ambulances if you were out on the road you can be required to stop at RTAs (ok RTCs now) - but a fire engine is a different beast and not all fight fires anyway, some just carry equipment. Our local ambulance trust taxes all its vehicles - it costs money but they can be used for other purposes!

But anyway all I want to do is find someone who wants this - otherwise I'll eventually get beaten up and forced to scrap it!

To clarify - should have earlier - if you use it as anything other than its current purpose you need to sort out the tax etc.

any pics?

Any how much do you want for it?

H'mm I have a fire extinguisher in the front of mine, and would be happy to share it if there is a fire, can I be exempt now :)

Bum! I had pics and now can't find any of them - I can take more but not till saturday. I want as much as I can get ;) - ok around 600 - thats LR and trailer but both need welding. Open to offers of course, especially if someone will take it as-is so I don't need to get nerw batteries etc!!

Just to clarify then, was it a military fire engine? Or is it an normal ex military Land Rover that was registered as a fire engine after it left service?

On or around Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:02:30 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@lardrover.co.uk enlightened us thusly:

sounds like it, if it's an FFR it ain't a fire engine. I smell a fiddle, somewhere along the line.

It left service as a normal FFR and was later registered as a fire engine due to its use - but it has had no further mods (except it has a hard top not a ragtop) e.g. does not have a pump fitted. It still has its military plate on the seat box. The only actual mod I can spot is the regulator box is behind the drivers seat rather than in the back - but the cables have not been altered so that could be put back into place - or it may have even been moved in service anyway.

I can take pics of all the bad bits if anyone is interested in it and the trailer - and as I said I am open to offers. I suspect the bulkhead is salvageable (I was going to try and weld the holes up), it had a new rear x-member and one outrigger (near one petrol tank) a few years back but the rest of the chassis seemed ok. But it has been stood for some time.

The trailer is a bit worse than I remebered it - it has rotted where the floor meets the edges and around the drain holes (which now drain really well ;) As far as I recall it shows a very slight bend in the chassis probably from heavy weight over rough ground - but it was always good to tow.

Might not have mentioned - 2286 petrol.

No, no fiddle - I wanted to put in a short ad rather than a long story, but I now realise that raises even more questions. The fact that a vehicle isn't red with a ladder in top and roller shutter side doors does not mean it isn't a fire engine - it depends on its use etc.

I take it no-one is actually interested in the vehicle (as a possible restoration or otherwise) - but I wanted to offer it first in case someone was as it's a shame to see it deteriorate still further. But it is making a useful shed at present!!

On or around Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:54:08 +0100, "Someone" enlightened us thusly:

not implying it's *your* fiddle. But to register something which isn't a fire engine and doesn't have fire engine equipment on it as a fire engine, you have to think that the reason for doing it was in order that it should be tax-and-mot exempt. Now, it could be that it was indeed equipped to put out fires at some point...

Chap down this way was after a cheap S3 to restore, I'll ask him.

Went back to Google to see all of this thread, as I used to own a "1973" FFR that has some similarities to this vehicle. No evidence of it being a fire engine (beyond my own extinguisher just in case), and it isn't the same vehicle.

It had the generator panel where you describe it. In my experience the generator and shunt panels could be in a variety of places. The rear bulkhead was the most common - but it could have been either side. I also had a new rear chassis section - it seems common in the military 109s that they were used for more towing than they should have.

And just to stir thing up, Beverley said it was a 1973 vehicle, but it was tax free. (alas the MOT wasn't!!! lol)

'L' Reg. Beverley listed it as being delivered to Ashchurch on 17th January 1973. Land Rover product records show it coming off the production line on

Gaydon provided the necessary letter for the tax-free registration, but the letter had nothing of any real interest on it.

Richard (M)

Richard Marsden Winwaed Software Technology

Yes - I had the xmember replaced when I jacked it up and it started to bend! New one came from Blanchards with short legs and these were plated into the chassis. Thanks for the panel info, probably mine is there since service days though a mate had one that was always getting wet in the back so he shifted his similarly.

That's useful. The letter I have from Beverley just says (if I remember) mine was made between 72 and 73 (or might be 73 and 74) and that will suffice if I want an age related plate.

Not at all, they have a following all of their own that you could explore, but if it has been registered as a fire engine since leaving service in order to benefit from a different tax and Mot status then you haven't got the same appeal, that status will revert if someone wants to restore it.

All the best.

I took my letter from Beverley to the tax office to get my age related plate, they were very helpful, no trouble at all. I'm not sure if they will accept it as proof of tax exemption etc unless they are happy with a document that shows it was delivered to Ashchurch or wherever on a given date that was before Dec 31 1972. The letter from Gaydon will be accepted though. does it have a Declared Manufactured date on the log book?

So will (incredibly) a letter from the Membership Secretary and Registrar of a vehicle owners' club...

Go on then, what's the going rate.... ;-)

On or around Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:55:37 +0100, Mother enlightened us thusly:

so, all the 101s are suddenly going to turn out to have been manufactured before the end of 1972, then?