Perhaps LR Should Look At This?

i.e. before they started to ignore:

"They are basic vehicles that are there to do a job.

"Customers don't want complicated electronics. If it's being sent to an area where they are not used to electronics systems then they may not know how to repair it.

"Given the conditions they'll being used in - dirt, dust, bogs - they're designed for as little to be able to go wrong as possible."

'cept that market went over to the Landcruiser long before L-R started refining things. Toyota had pretty well won the Africa market (including UN & NGO markets) back in the L-R Series III days. Remember a family friend who was involved in stuff UN-related in (IIRC) East Africa commenting that they never used Landys anymore, only Landcruisers - and that must have been '78 or so at the latest.

LR's market to NGO's etc collapsed in the early 80's - nothing to do with the vehicles though - Maggie scrapped a subsidy/tax break that used to be given on them, while others didn't, pricing then out of the market.

Many NGO's and, particulary, small charities would much rather use LR's (the windscreens don't pop out for a start), but the spares distribution has now collapsed and and/or become very expensive, while some Governments still effectively subsidise their own manuafcturers by giving "conditional aid" (see the doumentary about the father and son who set out to help the Sudanese railways for examples of the stupidity that that results in). Also, we are the only country daft enough to worry about "ethical" sales, hence several large Defender contracts have gone out of the window in the name of political corectness - leaving the gate wide open for the competition, not one of whom seem to have any concerns over such matters. Being ethical is fine, but if you are the only ones worrying about it you just end up looking (and being) stupid. Once again we've shot ourselves in the foot by playing to the rules while others don't.

Non-electronic 300Tdi, and even 2.5 petrol Defenders are/were until very recently still available for export only to specific markets, but LR don't seem to have made any real effort in that direction (probably in anticiptation of having the contract cancelled by the Government anyway), preferring the luxury market - which is strange for a cash-strapped company - the aid/NGO market would be a lot cheaper to design for, surely?

The global spares problem was supposed to be sorted out by Ford using the Catapillar parts network (which is truly global), but that doesn't seem to have gone quite to plan - even in the UK!

The trouble is that LR have now lost their "rugged and basic" image, and gaining a reputaion takes years - destroying it takes minutes.

Ho hum!

Richard

I've got one of those, it's called a Series Landrover

Alex

Seems odd - the Nissan Patrol appears to be much more rugged than the Toyota offerings

Hardly! The 105 Land Cruiser with live axles all round is much better built than the Nissan. Not that the Nissan is poorly built. For the record, I have currently a 110 Defender, a two year old Range Rover and, my daily work vehicle, a Land Cruiser 100 series 4.2 [Amazon in the UK]. Also have others which are not relevant here. In over 100,000 hard miles with frequent towing, the LC has had a sum of one wheel bearing, an air-con belt and two rear bulbs fail. The Range Rover [which does not tow] has had zero, yes absolutely no problems whatsoever in nearly 30,000 mildish miles so far, not counting a few dented panels on both.

IMO Land Rover just have not had the product at the right price to sell against those basic Land Cruisers. No-one in their right mind would choose a Defender if given a choice of it or a Patrol or Land Cruiser. Most organisations pay more for those vehicles than a Defender would cost them. It is an easy choice. The LR Defender is as cramped and basic as it ever was in Series II form. It just doesn't cut the mustard as a vehicle of choice anywhere but the UK any more. The sooner LR face up to this then the sooner they can start producing a competitive vehicle again, assuming they haven't long given up as seems to be the case. The '07 Defender is just taking the piss IMO.

Huw

I'm in agreement Richard in the unlikely event I was going out into the bush I would be looking at the Santana rather than a TD5 defender . Derek

While that may well be true, but the early Patrols (the ones that looked remakably like hearses) were massive vehicles[1], but with a tiny cabin space. You do see an awful lot of them in UN colours on the telly though, so someone must like them ;-)

Richard

On or around Fri, 18 Aug 2006 23:59:05 +0100, "Huw" enlightened us thusly:

having said that, I find as a 6'-and-a-bit fat bastard, the SIII is surprisingly comfortable for what it is. It's not saloon car comfort and I'd not want to do 600 mile sin a day in it, but I don't find it a problem driving for 2 hours at a stretch, for example, and generally, despite comfy seats and the like, I prefer to get out for a leg-stretch and walk around about that often in most motors.

I've got a 600+ mile trip in my SIIa coming up. For some reason SWMBO has booked a flight for herself though.

Funny thing, that. She clearly is the smarter one :)

... but may end up spending more time hanging around airports and still arrive second at the destination.