How much would people on this newsgroup be prepared to pay for a gallon of fuel?

The industry is not uneconomc if a level playing field exists , however lets play by your rules , the uk haulage system crashes , government loses billions in taxes , unemployement rizes costing the government billions in benifits are you prepared to take a tax hike of 10 % and a wage cut of 50% will you f*ck

Basic economics , of 100 pound plus a day wage cost differential , very low or no business tax in many eastern european countries No employment taxes (nat insurance currently 12% ) very little employment law

Not across all of europe , many countries do not enforce the regulations

Not all haulers can get international trips , he was just fortunate , if he didnt do that is uk fleet would be running at a substantial loss .

And you would be happy if your employer decided to be flexible and cut your wages by 50% and send you off to latvia or the likes and enforced a 16 hour day on you , take it or eave it

because they are not subject to employment laws if the company is not uk domicied nor uk tax or national insurance . Polish tax autorites have no access to uk tax records or vice versa so they can play the system

Utter rubbish , its nothing about working harder , they can afford to take less because thier cost of living is less , and because of the stupidity of the EU in supporting thier economies through leveys on the uk , germany france etc its skewing the market place , Take spain as an example thier economy has recieved billions in subsidies since the jioned the eu , so has southern ireland , they could both survive without these subsidies however it would mean large tax rizes and better fiscal and economic management something that is politically a non starter , many large companies are now relocating because of the tax advantages in these countries , because of the sudsidies we are paying .fiscal stupidity

Very few of the eu countries could stand on thier own two feet without these cash injections ,

They run 1500 or 2000 ltr tanks filled up in eastern european countries where thier fuel costs are far lower any cross border deliveries become far cheaper , most things in the uk are imported .

They can have ranges well over 3000 miles , even if they need to buy desiel on the return leg in the european mainland they only need to buy enough to travel to thier home country

That is not my rules, that is the rules of the jungle. If you are unecconomic you will fold. If there are problems such as larger fuel tanks or discepancies in hours driven then that should be addressed, not fuel tax. If people are not willing to work for the wages others are then that is a quite different problem.

If it is these taxes that are making the difference why are people concentrating on fuel duty?

Again, this should be where the protests or change should be concentrated, not fuel duty because fuel duty IS a level playing field.

I would not be happy, but I would accept it and move on, as I do whenever circumstances change and I have to change jobs. That is called a flexable labour market.

This does make me wonder, why are any contracting firms still paying UK tax if it is so easy to provide a service in this country yet pay lower polish taxes? I am thinking cleaning firms because of the NMW, but it would also apply to computer programing and other high value jobs if you save NI contributions etc.

Not connor but the large foriegn artics with 2000 ltr tanks can still pick up return loads and transport them around the uk on thier way to the local ports

Because our regulations are different to other EU countries , not all uk oads have european destnations

"steve robinson" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

So why can't Large British Artics use 2,000 litre tanks, too?

They can still use them in europe , as long as the tank is 'empty' when they hit the uk and the tank was part of the trailers original construction then they can still bring the trailers fitted with them into the uk , it still means they can run on cheap desiel here in the uk

"steve robinson" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

How about those who have moved and are living here?

Did you not see the chavs interviewed on TV outside a job centre refusing to work for £7/hr picking veg, because they felt it was too much like hard work?

Ireland joined (what became) the EU at the same time as the UK, in 1972. Spain in 1977.

Are you against all subsidies for regions experiencing economic difficulties?

So socio-political policy should support the rich-poor divide, rather than aim for a flattening of socia-economic differences? Is that purely at national level, or should it be applied to personal taxation within a country, too?

"steve robinson" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

How, if the tank must be EMPTY when they arrive in the UK?

because thiers a limit too the amount of fuel a british registered lorry can carry , i think the limit is 1500 ltrs , very few lorries have this size tank as it impacts on maximium load weight when full ,The carrying capacity of lorries varies throughout europe , our laws are very restrictive

"steve robinson" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

So there's a maximum tank size applicable to UK-registered vehicles, but which doesn't apply to foreign-registered vehicles being used in the UK?

Why has this never been mentioned before?

Nor, it would seem, do the ones that Johnny Foreigner is apparently doing on this cheap diesel that they've brought with 'em. Surely UK hauliers are just as free to bid for runs heading out of the UK as foreign hauliers are?

"steve robinson" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Still waiting for any verifiable reference to this claim...

...but apply equally to all vehicles using UK roads, not just UK- registered vehicles.

In this case you may be right, and if it is the case that they work harder it is because the enforcement of driving hours is more lax. The sleeping in the cab thing you mentioned could be interpreted as working harder. I have heard the argument from agricultural and horse training enplyers that the eastern europeans tend to worrk harder.

and because of the

Poland has not been in the uk for long, has the tax burden dropped there significantly? I have to suspect that it is because they live with much lower levels of public services, and the extra cash from the EU goies to helping there ecconomy catch up, so wages will not be lower than here for ever.

Other industries manage to compete with Polish wages, why not haulage?

It has been a while since you mentioned fuel duty. Do you belive it is that that is causing the problem, or these other questions?

It is hard work and £7.00 an hour is not a very good wage , i was earning that 20 years ago , they would probably be better off on benifits

hand out , any help should be subject to econmoic reform no reform no handout

Most of the poorer countries are in that position because of thier own economic mismanagement and fiscal control , you cant force a country into the twentyfirst centuary they need to grow at thier own pace , you only have to look at africa , the more we help and interfere the more they dispise us and yet the more they rely on us

A desperate people that are given food will still be desperate but they are unlikely to do anything about the situation that caused it

A desperate people who are not given food will be without hope they will do something about it

You are joking? You do not think it is anything to do with being flattened in WW2, then occupied by russia for 45 years while the west waged an ecconomic war against the soviet block? What do you suggest poland do differently? Surely not raise taxes, increase regulation of industry and prevent labour mobility which seems to be the issues you are complaining about.

you cant force a country

You have to remember that by far the largest chunck of the EU budget goes on supporting farmers to produce food, in particular inefficent "farmers" in france. I do not think you can can worry too much about industrial development support for easten europe while so much money is spend on the CAP.

If you were to reduce development support in poland etc. you would only make the problem here worse, as more people would come here looking for work. It is in everyones intrest to get easten europe up to a comparable level of wealth.

Most tractor units have one sometimes two or three tanks running at around 1500ltr capacity , the belly tanks are on the trailer units ,

What many drivers do is uncouple the fuel line , its very rare that the tank will actually ever be dipped if its not connected , even if it is its unlikely that a procecution will take place unless it is full takes them only a few minutes to reconnect the tank

google is your freind , look under construction and use of motorvehicles

correct but wagons built outside the uk will comply with the laws of the country its built for , it doesnt stop that vehicle comming to the uk as long as it meets our weight and hieght restrictions , full complience is only required if the vehicle is permantly imported to the uk