Sierra brake query

In news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com, Antony decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows

Hmm, I suspect with your level of mechanical nous, it's a case of spend £30 at the local garage and get them to do the job. Much easier, much safer, and you're much more likely to stay alive. Besides, that way, *THEY* get to have all the fun with seized bleed nipples.

You can get them both made up, it's easier if you use the old one as a pattern.

I completely agree.

souls

I would agree also. If you have never delt with brakes before, your better off paying somone a few quid to do it for you.

sQuick..

It ought to. Can turn into a right nightmare especially on a

14yr old car.

John

Then no one ever would DIY brakes.

I totally agree. Everyone has to start somewhere ! This is meant to be a car maintenance group, not car valleting.. The EU will prevent us soon enough, without any encouragement from so-called enthusiasts, and anyway in the scheme of things, how many accidents are actually caused by DIYer's.

Andy Pandy To e-mail, address hopefully, self-explanatory !

Quite correct...

I'm coming to the conclusion that some parts, like those for the braking system, should not be available to anyone who can't prove they have the correct training. I'm also concerned with the current training given to those working in the motor trade, ISTM it's almost a learn by your mistakes type training - which is a bit alarming were brakes are concerned to say the least !

Since it's a common car, a decent factor should have ready mades in stock. Or even a main dealer or Ford specialist. But if you have to have them made up, then it's best to take the old ones as patterns.

If the pipes are so corroded they need replacing, they might also be rusted solid to the unions. So if they have to be replaced anyway, it's often worth cutting them off just above the union so you can use a socket or ring spanner - as the open ender needed with the pipe in place is far more likely to slip.

There are many tasks that the average owner can undertake, but there are many that need a little mechanical knowledge, and when basic questions are asked it then indicates that the requied knowledge is totally missing. Working on the steering, braking and suspension systems are areas that / require / more than just a wish to 'DIY' or save a squid or two.

Quite a few I suspect, many are not serious and many never happen due to faults being noticed in time, such as wheel cylinders not correctly fitted to the back plate (not that common these days due to most cylinders now being bolted on rather than being held by a set of sliding clips) or seals fitted incorrectly - even parts left off when the 'planks' doing the work couldn't work out how they should fit or not fitted due to being temporally lost [1] - all the above I've personally had to sort out after the event.

[1] once had the owner bring his Mini into the garage I was working in at the time, the owner said the car had spongy brakes, it turned out he and his mates had fitted new seals to all the cylinders (MCly & WCly's) over the weekend. The upshot was, all seals fitted incorrectly and IIRC two of the wheel cylinders didn't have the internal springs fitted (they were later found by the owner on his drive way)...

I take it by this you're just a bar room mechanic? Or a CORGI member? Or both? Having 'the correct training' doesn't guarantee good or careful workmanship - greed often takes over.

Fitting new brake pipes is hardly rocket science, and the difficult part will be removing the old ones. Bleeding brakes afterwards is also fairly simple, with the added bonus that unless all the work is carried out properly, the brakes won't work *at all*. Of course, as with any job, you have to take care, but even the greenest rookie realises the importance of brakes on their *own* car.

Ah - you worked in a garage, so have a vested interest in preventing DIY. Perhaps you should put your 'own' house in order first - the garage trade in general has about the poorest record of any.

I've experienced **garage** "planks" who don't know how to fit parts or use common sense...

1. Brake pads fitted wrong way round (yes really)
2. Bleed nipples left open
3. Unsecured rear silencer hanging simply by the join to the middle section
4. Melted plastic fuel lines after gas cutter used to take off exhaust system
5. Brake shoe springs being omitted

I could go on but the point is that none of the above were done by something like a KwikFit outfit (with cheap monkeys), they were all left in that state by reputable non-franchise high street garages. 1,2,4 and 5 are potentially lethal: 3 also if the silencer bounced off into someone's windscreen.

My advice to the OP is purely financial: if you've already got copper pipe, and a flaring tool then do the job yourself. If not, it's going to be cheaper to get a garage to do it - probably the MoT station. Just check the stuff isn't leaking afterwards ;-)

-- Ken Davidson DocDelete

I'm with you part of the way here. Training /by and large/ (not just motortrade) is too often considered an luxury optional extra. There's nothing wrong with on-the-job training as long as it's structured and has tangible measurable results. Sadly, the days of garage apprenticeships are long gone.

I can only relate my own experience as a "give-it-a-go" DIYer. The **first** job my Dad (life long pro mechanic) taught me was to service the braking system on my Fiat 128, not top up the oil or change a wheel! A certain logic there I think...

-- Ken Davidson DocDelete

That sort of thing is just a gravy train for those doing the work profesionally and those who do the training.

Why would I need to prove that I've been on a training course when I can do the job perfectly adequately without it? Would I assumed to be competent because I've been on the course, and incompentent because I hadn't?

Personally I prefer the status quo to remain. I can work on my car and don't need to pay somebody to do jobs that I am well capable of doing myself. There is absolutely any guarantee that because I pay somebody else to do a particular job it will be done correctly and as well as I would have done it.

In the case of my car (a Xantia) you can go to many garages and find that the mechanics have no understanding whatever of the hydraulic systems on the car.

-- James

You know I have Dave [1], and I won't defend the trade who rip off or mess up, one of the reasons why I'm not working in the mechanical (service) side of the trade now, but I have also seen to many DIYer making a perfectly safe car into a potential death trap...

[1] if I say 'The Bill' and a car park in Corydon a few years back, does that ring any bells ?

No. just someone who has seen the trade form the inside for more or less 25 years, I'm equally pissed off with the trade greed (manifest in the lack of / real / training etc.) and the DIYer who thinks because (s)he can read a manual they can do the work even when they have no experience. Would you let an absolute novice, someone who doesn't know a fader from a cross fade, near your mixing desk ? And a crap sound track isn't going to kill...

Yes, and I bet you were closely supervised until you had proved you knew what you were doing. It's the bloke or lass working on his own, not really knowing what (s)he is doing and having no one to point out any errors that really scare me. If the brakes fail and there is a crash involving others due to the owners workmanship their car insurers are either not going to want to know or are going to take the owner to the cleaners to recoup their losses.

happen due to

correctly fitted

cylinders now

clips) or seals

doing the work

being

after the event.

parts or use

middle section

exhaust

done by something

in that state

are potentially

windscreen.

Main dealers are no better. I can quote, from personal experience, of equally incompetent workmanship from a local main dealer. The worst example being to fit a new master cylinder retained by only one nut. The other completely missing ! Mike.