Underclocking my tuning box...

Or just get something with a decent diesel lump, not some cast-off from a 1980s off-roader.

How can I value the opinion of somebody who wouldn't know a decent diesel lump if he fell over it on the way to the bathroom for a slash in the middle of the night?

"HTH."

It appears you don't know a decent diesel lump, either, having owned 2 that were just about the worst on the market at the time they were launched.

Well I do... and if they're anything like the Vauxhall DTi lumps, they suffer with a throttle that seemingly has a mind of its own in an attempt to smooth over gearchanges... at least that's the only logical explanation I could come up with for the throttle lagging so much on lift off on those, anyway.

Something I've never experienced with any VAG TDis / PSA HDis...

Just as you've done, Mr.-Fiat-and-Alfa-Romeo-are-the-best-car-in-the-world, drives a diesel Passat now, for goodness sake.

If you really stuck by your hard nosed conviction with the Italian machines, you would have paid the extra for the JTD badge on the rump.

Yes the Vauxhall units do, but the TiD doesn't. It's essentially the same engine with, and I quote, "Saab tweaked ECU settings." Presumably they solved that issue... either way for 99% of my driving I'd not notice it, 'cos I'm in top gear on the motorway.

On the other hand, VAGs shut off power as soon as you touch the brake pedal. There are occasions when it's advantageous to have both power and brakes on, such as trying to get up an icy steep hill.

It is the same Izuzu lump from the older VXs, but given the Saab treatment. Nothing much special, just seamingly more civilised.

Later ones use the JTD Fiat/Alfa lump like the modern VX TDi models.

I have to say that I've never noticed.

It's quite easy to potter along at 30mph without touching the throttle, even if you use the brakes to retard the car down hills.

That'll be because GM couldn't design a decent oil burner if their lives depended on it.

So they went out and bought one of the best diesel engines on the market.

I can't say I've had any problems getting up any of those in any of my previous TDis, tbh.

Even if I did have such a need, I've got something called the 'handbrake'.

SteveH is right - those Saabs share the same engine as the Frontera.

Oops.

"How the mighty have fallen"

Hur hur... he said 'retard'.

This is the engine that struggles to haul my brother's Frontera to a heady 90mph, downhill, with a tailwind.

Oh, I don't know. They've come a long way since they bought a notoriously trouble-prone engine from Triumph.

And a great piece of kit the JTD is, too...

Goodo. Golf TDIs are hardly a heel and toe machine, so it's not really an issue. Just don't drive off into the country in deep snow...

I'm supposing that acts on the rear wheels?

There are occasions when it's advantageous to brake a spinning wheel to get moving in slippery conditions.

Erm... great. I mean, that's superb. Not sure how relevant it really is, though?

It is a brick outhouse on wheels, to be fair... albeit, not a particularly well built brick outhouse...

That would be why Honda used a GM / Isuzu design for the Civic?

Yes, that's right, because Honda cars break down a lot...

Actually, that's not the case, access to the JTD is compensation for a bungled takeover.

It doesn't change how great the engine is. It's the only great thing to have come out of the Fiat / GM joint ventures, come to think of it.

Yes, and were rightly slated for it, so went away and designed their own.

This isn't about breaking down, it's about the GM oil burners generally being rattly old boat anchors.

Nearly right. GM are now paying Fiat a small fortune for the JTDs, 'cos they don't have their own design. They know a good thing when they see it, so don't appear to have any plans to design their own lump.

Which is bollocks.

There's the Alfa V6 which is a jointly developed block, as are the new JTS lumps.

Not forgetting how Fiat have engineered a floorpan for the Corsa that's actually a decent drive.

Dunno about your model year, but every one does the annoying fuel cut off thing, making heel/toe changes impossible.

They were already designing their own but felt compelled to use another, so after an extensive beauty parade, went with the Isuzu offering.

Talk to any Honda executive and tell him or her the above, I expect the informal response will end in "off."

Have you tried the previous generation Civic 1.7 diesel?

The unit cost is pretty cheap as it happens...

You want to reconsider that, do you?

I can't think of anything else that's been great.

Neither are great, though.

Compared to the previous Punto or the Corsa, that's *really* not difficult at all. What's your point?

Yes, the Corsa, advertised with sock puppets w*****g in bed before their chumps come over to give them a ride.

Or the Fiat, resting on the fact that it's won some award some time ago.

The Punto looks great though, I've not driven one, I daresay I'll have the opportunity in due course.