Flame wars

naww.. kafertoys aka mario.

KaferDave!! ; Good to see your voice in print again on this forum. Bless your VW lovin' , VW writing, Puma viewing butt. Dennis

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Hey Dave sorry didn't get to run into you at any of the shows, I've been swamped with a lot of new projects, will try to get a website set up soon, to show some nice beetles being put togther.

the other kaferdude Mario

.............Mixing and matching parts from customer's cars and then selling them to other victims......uh....I mean 'customers' must be very challenging and time consuming. With all of those court dates and having to re-locate to new location periodically, you still find time to post several times a day here at RAMVA?

...........Bless your heart!

Nope, nothing. Dead and ready to be put on someone's pizza.

Give it a rest.

Jan

...................This individual has stolen from some of the members of this newsgroup and has been found guilty of doing so in the courts. And yet he is still masquerading here as just an honest but 'misunderstood' aircooled enthusiast. He is persistently trying to keep his chop-shop going by fishing here in this newsgroup for more 'customers'. This is an ongoing situation that needs to be pointed-out so that newbies and lurkers don't get victimized by this 'dead horse'.

All the messages that were written before, stating exactly what you said, are still available on the new servers around the world. They are not even very old yet. Surely any "newbie" will see the thread when he downloads his first couple of thousand messages. The subject line says a lot in many of them.

And those of us who have been here longer, can surely rely on their memory for just a little longer than say, 2 days, on this matter.

Don't you think?

I'm not defending Mario. I'm not jumping his throat either because so many others have seen to it more than enough. I don't see how any more warnings could do anyone any good. In fact, too much of it will start annoying people and the shere repetition will start taking attention away from the issue itself. The message doesn't GET any stronger even if you say it a thousand times more. I'm tempted to link some URLs to articles on basic child psychology, but I'm lazy and just won't bother.

Jan

Untrue. Comcast newsservers (not the Giganews ones) have their retention set at as little as 24 hours depending on the newsgroup. Anyhow, how often is it some newbie will do research on who is who when first coming to a newsgroup? If Tim or other victims want to complain about Mario, more power to them. Perhaps he will leave and there will be no more need to warn anyone.

.................Some servers maintain more messages than others. Righ now, the Road Runner news server here in my region is only saving a little over

Fine. Turn your newsgroup to a battlefield filled with nothing but flames.

Meaning, think beyond this one isolate incident. Soon there will be others, if we let one or two get out of hand. What is discussed here, shows what the group is for, and who we are.

I won't be part of that. Neither will many other people. It is just because of this crap that made several long time contributors leave.

Jan

Without reading this reply any further, I already have a question for you.

ARE YOU PEOPLE GOING TO KEEP THIS S*IT UP FOR FU*KIN FOREVER THEN??????????

I'm your KING. What more do you need. LOL

Nothing personal, Tim. I'm looking beyond any one person, any one flame war, any one "known crook". Want to see EVERY damn "crook" out there in aircooled VW land get flamed here, over and over and over again? That's all your server's 300 messages will be about at that point.

Any individual capable of thinking with their own brain, should know better that to trust anyone without trying to find out something about the person or business, before trusting them with their money or vehicle.. Sadly, I must admit that many don't bother. I can't make them smarter.

A whining, bitching reply from me (yet again) would seem meaningless unless I included at least one constructive suggestion that could not only try to folow my own guidelines, but be helpful and achieve the same goal your endless whining and bitching is trying to accomplish.

Start posting messages that say "Don't trust businesses or individuals blindly, if you plan to do business with them, do yourself a favor and find out what kind of reputation they have".

From where? DUHH... here in Ramva would be a good start.

That sample message would take care of a whole lot more "crooks" than just Mario.

Jan

Until he pays his debts, YES. Once he does that, he doesn't owe any more $ that he HAS STOLEN, and it's done with. But I'm not going to sit here and say nothing while he trolls for fresh prey Jan, no way.

Put another way, I'll stop posting warnings about him, if you give your word to pay anyone that Mario rips off from this point onwards. Are you willing to do this? If not, why not?

John Aircooled.Net > >

I do see where you are coming from.

'cause I'm piss poor :)

Alternatively: because it's not my responsibility. Likewise, it's not anyone's responsibility to keep warning the potential customers about Mario's or anyone else's bad business practises. You don't see people posting crap about GEX every week, just to warn people? Only when asked. Works beautifully. Sometimes some uninformed poor bastid walks in here and starts asking why his GEX engine doesn't run right. Can't save them all. Had they asked us before making their purchase decision, we would have told him. Heck all he needed to do was run one Google search. Same goes for Mario now..

I still claim it's the buyer's responsibility to make sure he knows what he puts his money into. I'd run a search or ask people "in the know" if I planned to let anyone get hold of my money. It's common sense.

What you (plural here) are doing here, is understandable and you mean good, but it will soon start working against you. Not to mention against the group, as I stated before. (Signal/noise ratio)

You, John, for example.. you own your aircooled VW business, and you keep trashing another person who also happens to have an aircooled business. For good reason, yes! BUT before long, you will start sounding (excuse me for being blunt) so stuck with that one obsession that it makes you look stupid. What's left for your customers to see is you yammering on and on about the same thing to no end. Flaming a competitor of sorts. At some point the real issue, the grounds for your complaint or warning, will start fading away, and you will be known as the person who keeps flaming other people in the acvw business. I don't think that would speak too highly of your business practises? You'd turn the whole thing against you, even when there really isn't anything wrong with you or your way of doing business. It's what people see, that makes your reputation. I feel that with time, they'd see you as someone who just won't stop flaming some other guy in the same business.

Now, if you read this far without blowing your fuse, please go on for just a little more:

In light of what I just wrote above, what would it look like, to your customers and potential customers, if you followed this practise evenly and fairly without discrimination, with ALL the people and businesses that you feel (proof or no proof) ripped you off? How many are there, or will there be over the years? 2? 5? 10? Would you stick to what you believe is just, and right, and start posting these messages about them as well? Will that make you look better, or worse? I have my own opinion about that.

I'm pushing your patience I'm sure, but consider this..... you would be RIGHT in doing so. You would have just cause. You'd still end up looking silly. Then there's a dozen other people who decide to do the SAME! Each posting this same (xcuse me for my language again) CRAP about let's say half a dozen businesses they feel ripped THEM off.

What do you think this newsgroup would look like after a while if this went on and expanded? You are a trusted and respected member of this community, as are your business practises. You are setting an example for others, want it or not. You are shaping this group, now it's partially your responsibility to make some kind of judgement or decisions as to where you want it to go, what you want it to look like. Your word (and example) weighs a good bit more than that of a newbie. It's enough to cause or strenghten an avalanche. Sure there are a couple of other long time members who have credibility and are trusted the same. Who happen to be doing just the same.. setting an example and policy for this group.

Maybe you (all of you) just don't realize where it may lead once it gets out of control. None of you can stop the ball once it starts rolling and reaches critical speed. Hell, you aren't even being fair and equal, unless you start this same kind of flame-fest against everyone who ever ripped you off or you heard ripped someone else off. If you (all) were consistent with it, (instead of just tearing Mario to bits here since someone started and thus the rest of you can escape the blame of starting it), there's be little more going on in RAMVA.

For those who don't have a personal issue or unfinished business with Mario.. the rest of you all will just look stupid echoing the voice of others to no end :D (I'm 50% kidding here)

Your resident provocative oracle and seer of grim things Jan

................There is only ONE known crook who is currently posting here day in and day out. Doesn't it strike you as being a little strange that his posting history here for many years at RAMVA was infrequent with long periods of inactivity until this recent episode with his long-time associate and friend finally blew his cover once and for all? Now, he's here every day without fail. It's as if he's now on a crusade to salvage his reputation and maybe prove that he's the real victim? What do the 'child psychology' URL's say about that? I'm not too happy about some the flamefests that have occured here in the past and I feel guilty for having been directly involved in some of them but this is more important than people arguing over top posting or politics & world peace! There is a specific scoundrel among us who is looking for more victims on an almost daily basis. General warnings about doing seller research and letting the buyer beware is great advice until you remember that most of the people who come here are too trusting and naive to even suspect that one of us here is hoping to skin them alive if the opportunity arises.

They agree with you. But it's a whole different story.. and doesn't justify this flood any better. It's just Mario's damage control.

Are you sure he's the only one? This newsgroup is a wonderful opportunity for any VW business to harvest potential customers. Some of them not so honest. For now, we seem to only know of Mario.

If this raised awareness brought more of them into daylight, would you treat them the same? Wouldn't you feel just as obliged to do so? What about all of the other people who felt obliged to do so this time?

Let's play this out just for the mental excercise:

Say there were 10 of you. Each posting on average maybe 5 posts "contributing" to the issue. That doesn't sound like too much, huh?

Not counting replies to me bitching about it, that's 50 messages flaming Mario alone.

Enter 5 more bad companies or individuals that someone, encouraged by the results of this flame-fest, managed to unveil.

Naturally, since none of these flame-fests actually END in this scenario you are advocating, and you adhere to your commitment to air each and every one out a reasonable number of *5* times they end up being posted simultaneously over a very short period of time.

Now there's 250 flame-messages on your 300-message news server. All justified, all based on proven facts. Over and over again, because none of you would stop posting until the "rotten apple" has gone away, and they don't.

How do you like your RAMVA experience now? With just 10 people taking part in it, and only 5 companies or individuals identified as "crooks". That's not so much, is it?

The "interesting" messages will lose ground. There's only one message, posted ONCE, from a guy in Delaware asking help with his intermittent wiper problem. Can you find it, from among 250 flame posts? Do you think our "other" readers and contributors would even care to look at that point? No wait, I know! They can killfile you! And John Connolly.. and everyone else who took part in this madness. Ahhhh.. bliss :) So what if the 300-message storage server deletes messages older than 30 minutes, it is now free of that nasty repetitive drivel :)

Jan

if he leaves I'll stop warning people here, but until then I will not change. It's simple. I am not going to let people assume (incorrectly) that he's an honorable guy to buy/sell from/to.

John Aircooled.Net > >

KaferDave!! ; Good to see your voice in print again on this forum. Bless your VW lovin' , VW writing, Puma viewing butt. Dennis

Hiya Dennis. I still lurk a little, when I have time, and when I see where I can help, I will. BTW, that unregistered Puma is still sitting in the back part of our building... I volunteered to stick that 250 hp N2O engine in it and take it for a spin, but I was met with a resounding NO.. I guess they know me too well there... 8=)

good point jan.

: ) 35420 messages. of course then there is google with lots more messages. true I dont want to read and dont read some threads.

... so what you need is someone they don't already know, right?

Not that I would ever volunteer for such a thing. ;-)

Max