Duplicate key made from VIN # ?

No, they are not. Keys do have code numbers, but they aren't keyed to the VIN in any way the dealer can get to the codes.

The dealer may have the key code for a particular car though. My boss's wife used his car and the electric locks failed. (door key and ignition key were different) He had the key in his pocket, but he was in Europe at the time. I called the dealer (60 miles away) and with some difficulty in proving it was a legit situation, he gave the code to a local locksmith.

I doubt you can just walk into a dealer with a vin number and buy a key. I don't know if the dealer got the code from his file as I never gave him the vin.

Of course you can order a key with your VIN number! How else would you ever get one if all your keys were lost? And yes, anybody can walk right up to your car and copy down the VIN number that is right there in plain view. Generally the dealer does not have a list of VIN and key codes lying around, but the manufacturer retains that data, and is able to provide either the code number or a coded key (or coded lock cylinder) when one is ordered by the dealer.

Most jurisdictions require that the dealer collect proof of ownership from the person ordering a coded key, and collect a copy of some form of personal ID, before making an order for a coded key. [Customers frequently object loudly to this - sheesh, it's for their own good, makes you wonder how understanding they'd be if the dealer sold a coded key for their vehicle to a crook.]

Are you telling me that I should take a piece of black electrical tape and put it over my VIN number on my dashboard to keep my car from getting stolen... for chrissakes...!

Jimmy

that's actually not a bad idea.

nate

"Jimmy" wrote in news:P9sgg.1198$lp.347 @newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net:

its a FACT! with GM at least.....i have many keys cut a year (rental fleet) with nothing but the VIN......now, if the system is protected with theft prevention all the key will do is get you in the door......ford seems to be adifferent story tho. they force me to find the selling dealer and hope he does a good job on paperwork..............kjun

Rob,

GM also requires their dealers to keep records on any person that requests a key based on VIN number. It is for the dealer's own protection: if a dealer makes a key for someone that is not the owner and that car gets stolen, the dealer is an accessory to that theft and can, at the least, be subject o civil suit.

Here is a direct quote of Buick Bulletin 01-00-89-009:

Info - Replacement of Keys, Key Numbers and/or Security Chips #01-00-89-009 Replacement of Keys, Key Numbers and/or Security Chips

General Motors has received reports from dealers and law enforcement officials in various parts of the country regarding a new trend in auto theft.

The current mode of operation is for a person (thief) to do the following:

Pick out the vehicle he/she wishes to steal from a new/used car sales facility or off the street.

Record the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN).

Take the VIN to any dealership which cuts keys. In some instances they have presented hand-written registration forms as proof of ownership.

The thief then returns and drives the vehicle from the location.

Cutting of replacement keys is serious business. General Motors Policies and Procedures Manual, Section 3.2.5 (3.1.6 in Canada), Replacement of Key Numbers & Security Chips, provides the following guidelines: "For security and protection against auto theft, dealer should verify vehicle ownership before providing replacement keys, key numbers and/or security chips. Verification should include positive identification of requester and verification of vehicle ownership through registration."

Each dealership should (if they are in the business of cutting keys for walk-in, phone, fax, or other requesters) make a permanent file, by VIN, of all key requests. Copies of the following documents should remain in each file:

Government-issued picture ID (for example, a driver's license)

Registration or other proof of ownership Registration should have normal markings from the state/province which issued the registration and possibly the receipt for payment recorded as well. Since each state/province will be different, you will need to set up guidelines for your dealership based on the current registration laws and or policies of your state/province. We know of no law enforcement agency or state/province vehicle registration office which will accept a hand-written registration document.

Copy of the paid customer receipt which has the name of the employee who cut and sold the key to the customer

When vehicle ownership cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, DO NOT provide the keys. Refer the customer to the selling dealer or GM Roadside Assistance.

Important When a dealership calls the TRACS 2000 voice response system (Vintage Group in Canada) for key codes, the dealer code is recorded by VIN, in a permanent electronic file. Cutting keys for anyone other than the registered vehicle owner may result in the dealership and/or employee being charged with aiding and abetting in grand theft auto and determined to be liable, in the event the vehicle is subsequently stolen from another dealership or customer.

Dealers may wish to designate one specific, trusted employee as the person to handle all key requests.

Kjun,

If the dealer knows you and does business with you, that is a different story than someone just walking in off the street. GM, in the P&P Manual, requires their dealers to keep records of all key requests from VIN numbers - also, when a dealer calls the automated system GM has for them to get key codes, the dealer's code and the VIN is recorded.

See the other post I placed in this thread for the complete text of Buick Service Bulletin regarding this subject.

Regards, Bill Bowen Sacramento, CA

No they are not, and no you can not simply copy a VIN number off a car and go to a dealer and have a key made from the number. Any body who tries to tell you somthing different has no idea what they are talking about.

There is not ralationship to the VIN and the key code excect a dealer can 'sometimes' obtain the key code by knowing the VIN, in orded to cut a key, for a person whom they can varify as the owner. If the vehilce is titled to anybody other than a single named owner, you may have a problem ketting a key cut in any event

mike hunt

You just need to cover up the last 8, cops get mad if you cover the whole thing up and they want to check your VIN # against your insurance card to make sure its not a hot car.

Mike, you are wrong, we do it all the time at our dealership. There is a relationship between the VIN and the key code. Didn't we have this discussion before already?

Ian

Michael, Michael, Michael

I admire your strength of conviction, but as usual you are as full of shit as a Christmas turkey. Life in your parallel universe must be a wonderful thing. "But most of us don't live anywhere near perfect ..."

If that is what you still believe, than you are still incorrect. The is no single digit or combination of digits in the VIN that will allow a person to discover the key code with which to enable anybody to cut a key, at your dealership or any other.

The VIN will reveal the registered owner and that will permit an authorized person to find the key code, IF it was recorded, from the key tab by the selling dealership, at some point.

Therefore my answer to the question asked, can anybody get a key cut by observing ones VIN #, is accurate.

mike hunt

Nor do you live in THIS world apparently, what color is the sky in YOUR world? My knowledge of the question ask is based on my years as Group Sales Manager for one of the largest mega-deal groups on the east cost. In my reply to the original poster to the question; 'Can someone copy your VIN number off your dashboard and then go to a dealer and have a key made from the number,' I said in part, no and anybody who tries to tell you something different has no idea what they are talking about. You are entitle to your opinion but not your own facts.

A quick search of the NHTSA site, for the definition of the seventeen digits of the VIN, will reveal you are wrong my dear friend Rob, not me, there is nothing in the VIN concerning the key code. No dealership would authorize any employee to cut a key for any person, not know by the dealership to be the rightful owner of that vehicle, simply because they knew the VIN. .

If you discover anything different than what is found on the NHTSA site, I would be more than glad to look at any evidence to the contrary. ;)

By the way do you EVER have friends over for Christmas dinner that eats your stuffing,? ;)

mike hunt

That sounds good but the vehicle owner or the police would have to know where the key was cut. If the thief goes to that much trouble to get your car it's not just for a joy ride, if the police don't stop it while it's being driven to the chop shop nobody will know if they had keys or if it was hot wired when it was stolen.

Al

Which part about Ian sees this every day in the [GM] dealership where he works is too hard for you to understand?

You're claiming that GM is incapable of maintaining a [very] simple database. They're inept, but not -that- inept.

How many decades have you been out of the loop? Here's a news flash; the VIN is now used to determine many things about which specific equipment was installed on a vehicle when it was built, right down to the interior trim color and whether it has power seats and rear air conditioning. Is this coded in the VIN? Of course not (and no one claimed that it was), but the VIN allows access to a database that contains the information. No different than pushing a sequence of buttons on a radio to get a numerical readout, inputting those numbers into an automated telephone database and getting an unlock code.

No it is not, not by current technology.

So, you'd know then right off the top of your head what the exact torque specifications are for the rocker arm bolts on a GM 3400 engine in a 2002 Montana mini-van is, right?

IOWs, why would a sales manager know jack shit about cutting keys when that is the lot boys job?