Which part about Ian sees this every day in the [GM] dealership
where he works is too hard for you to understand?
You're claiming that GM is incapable of maintaining a [very]
simple database. They're inept, but not -that- inept.
How many decades have you been out of the loop?
Here's a news flash; the VIN is now used to determine many things
about which specific equipment was installed on a vehicle when it
was built, right down to the interior trim color and whether it
has power seats and rear air conditioning. Is this coded in the
VIN? Of course not (and no one claimed that it was), but the VIN
allows access to a database that contains the information.
No different than pushing a sequence of buttons on a radio to get
a numerical readout, inputting those numbers into an automated
telephone database and getting an unlock code.
<zoom, right over Hunters head>
That may be your opinion but you do not know what you are talking about.
You can prove it to yourself, take down somebody VIN go to a dealership and
ask them to cut you a key and see what happens. LOL
Says the guy who insists that there was a Mitsubishi V-6 engine
option in a Chrysler product that required that the engine be
jacked up in order to change the oil filter; a fact that's been
refuted by two different (Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouth) dealership
mechanics in two different countries who together have a combined
working experience of over 50 years.
Don't need to, I've already done it.
Maybe it's because I have a 26 year working history at the GM
dealership and they know that it's a legitimate request.
Maybe it's because my brother in law works at the Dodge
dealership where I have a 30 year working history and they know
that it's a legitimate request.
Maybe it's because I have a 18 year working history at the Ford
dealership and they know it's a legitimate request.
If it never worked for you maybe it's because you talk funny...
I bet that you get laughed at and ignored a LOT.
Face it Hunter, there are lots of things that -I- can do that you
can't even begin to fathom.
"Stole?" According to you, that would be impossible.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that that is all the farther
that your brain can comprehend.
Ever hear of locks that don't work as they should? Has it
occurred to you that there are trained service personnel out
there whose job it is to repair such problems? Or should they
just throw the vehicle away because the ignition lock is stuck?
Imagine that... I can call a dealership parts department and have
an ignition lock cylinder coded and ready to go that matches the
original key. They actually -do- that if you're not brain dead.
Nothing. (I'm sure that Ian carries the title to his sons car in
But it does prove that the only thing(s) you know about
dealership operations is where the mens room was and where the
owner hid his bottle of Gin.
You are the one that says a person can't read a VIN and get
a key cut that works. You are wrong. You also assume that
criminals can't have people working on the inside. Fortunately,
our dealership requires proof of ownership before they will
cut keys for anyone.
I left my 1987 Caravan at a dealer for work 15 years ago and forgot to
leave the key for them. When I got to work and realized what had
happened, I called my service adviser to see if I had to get a ride back
there to give them the key. I was told by the service adviser that she
had another key made from the VIN# and I didn't need to come in. So,
dealers obviously have had the capability to do this for over 10 years
You're splitting hairs. No, you cannot determine the key code using a
single character in the VIN, and I don't think anyone other than
yourself said something to indicate they thought this. However, the
VIN may be used, by an authorized person, to obtain the code using
GM's database. I can't imagine GM is unable to record the key code
used on a given vehicle at the time of assembly and leaves it up to
the selling dealer to record this code, thus forcing the owner to FIND
said selling dealer (if no the original owner) to make a new key. As
was said before, GM isn't THAT inept or poor at record-keeping. Not
to mention that it would make road-side assistance calls VERY
difficult if an owner needs a key cut while on vacation because theirs
got dropped in the ocean.
Now, if the vehicle in question has been re-keyed, that's another
On Sun, 4 Jun 2006 17:35:42 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
What part of 'The VIN will reveal the registered owner and that will permit
an authorized person to find the key code and have a key cut for your car,'
did you not understand?
If you knew anything about what happens on the assembly line you would know
the manufacture does not record the key code at time of assembly. The key
code is determined by the supplier and recorded on the tabs attached to the
keys, included with the lock set, that comes out of a box on the assembly
line. When the car is reported to the manufacture as sold by the
dealership, the key code is supplied by the dealership to the manufacture
for the data base and warranty purposes. It is also supplied to the lending
institution, although, with all the litigation today some prefer to be
simply be given a PAT key.. Some dealership will not reveal the code to
anybody, not even the manufacture for the same reason.
Dealerships do have a computerized key cutter that can cut another, but it
can not install the PAT code if you do not have a SECOND key to enter into
the machine. It can only do so if one has TWO keys. In the absence of a
second key a separate scan tool must be attached to the vehicle, to down
load the PAT code off the vehicle microprocessor. That is why it costs so
much to have a PAT key cut, if a person does not have a second key. Things
are designed that way so that somebody, like a valet parking attendant can
not copy your ONE key, or a person having only the VIN can not have a key
made that will start YOUR car.
So in essence for a dealership to cut a key that will start your car they
need the car, or two keys. My answer to the original question, 'Can anybody
simply look at your VIN and go to a dealership and get a key cut, still
stands as the correct answer to the question asked, no they can not.
PS My advice always take a second key when away from home. When I travel,
my wife takes her key to that car as well, and I carry a key hidden inside
my cars for that reason. It is not like the old days when you could have a
key cut anywhere just by carrying the key code with you. ;)
The VIN will reveal the registered owner at the Department of
Motor Vehicles. There is a much less than 100% chance that the
OEM can track an owner via VIN once the car has changed hands
until and/or unless the new owner frequents a dealership and the
VIN is reassigned to the new owner/customer.
Jesus, Mary and Joseph. The alpha numeric key codes were printed
on the window sticker as far back as 1980. The alpha numeric
codes and the Briggs&Stratton master code manual were all that
was needed to cut new keys. If I did it once, I did it one
hundred times after a transport driver did an after hours
delivery and locked the keys in the car instead of walking his
lazy ass over to the after hours keys deposit slot and dropping
Not all cars have Passive Anti-Theft, and not all PATS vehicles
have the PATS coded into the key, so stop with the red herring.
Happens every day.
That something this simple is a two person job in your household
is not surprising...
Michael, Michael, Michael
I admire your strength of conviction, but as usual you are as full of
shit as a Christmas turkey. Life in your parallel universe must be a
wonderful thing. "But most of us don't live anywhere near perfect ..."
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