... to promote my *science* agenda... you never did debunk NOAA, Nate... don't think we've forgotten. What about the rest of the planet? You asserted that you would change your mind if given good evidence... I gave you the best... you stonewalled. That makes you a *lying piece of shit*. Chomp that. __ Steve .
youre "science" agenda was nothing more than "could be's" from self serving governmental agencies.
so give me something _conclusive_ that doesnt come from a self serving governmental agency.
The NOAA stuff had no ambiguity... you're stonewalling again. Show evidence that NOAA is wrong... impugning NOAA science by calling the organization 'self-serving' commits the logical fallacy of agumentum ad hominem... a quote:
Argumentum ad hominem literally means "argument directed at the man" = ... The first is the abusive form. If you refuse to accept a statement, and = justify your refusal by criticizing the person who made the statement, = then you are guilty of abusive argumentum ad hominem. ...This is a = fallacy because the truth of an assertion doesn't depend on the virtues = of the person asserting it.
Note that your fallacy is the abusive form...
Sorry... I've posted plenty of evidence.. even pointed out your logic problems to you. Now *you* have to post a link that shows that CFC emissions don't hurt the ozone layer... have it explain why the rest of the world is wrong, while you're at it. __ Steve .
horseshit. explain the difference!
i never said that cfc couldnt hurt the ozone. i said that cfcs cant reach the ozone due to their heavier atomic weight and i provided links from your engineers that validated my statement.
and justify your >>refusal by criticizing the person who made the = statement, then you are guilty of >>abusive argumentum ad hominem. = ...This is a fallacy because the truth of an >>assertion doesn't depend = on the virtues of the person asserting it.
Explain the difference in what? Is there something that you don't understand about the sentence "the truth of an=20 assertion doesn't depend on the virtues of the person asserting it"?
Notice: neither did I. I said "don't". Please read carefully.
The NOAA article clearly states that man-made CFC's were measured in the stratosphere... and everywhere else in the atmosphere. The article goes on to explain the ratios, how they've grown since first detection in the 1950's, and how they've started to fall after CFC's were discontinued.
All you posted was the user's manual from your leak detector, and a page from an online HVAC tech course. Don't bring a pea-shooter to a shootout, Nate... get some evidence with balls, or give up. If what you say is true, then there's some scientific evidence for it. That's what we're waiting for. __ Steve .
both the epa and noaa are self serving. ive asked you for conclusive evidence from a credible source and you gave me links with "proudliberal" in the url as a credible source. lol.
exactly! links from your ENGINEERS that are actually from WITHIN the hvac industry! they have nothing to gain or lose by the environmental issues and are telling you how to use the tools effectively. both clearly state to check for leaks below the source because refrigerant is heavier than air and falls which is what ive told you from the beginning.
Funny, if (when?) it's a Republican saying similar things against Democrats, I suspect many rank and file GOPers would stand and applaud. Instead, the Dems distance themselves from him, not wanting to offend anyone. Sheesh.
From what I see, it looks like Hillary is being seriously considered for
2008. I guess the Dems have really decided that they don't want to occupy the White House for the next dozen years or so.Hillary in the classroom Hillary Clinton goes to a primary school in Ithaca, New York, to talk about the world. After her talk she offers question time. One little boy puts up his hand, and the senator asks him what his name is.
"Kenneth."
"And what is your question, Kenneth?"
"I have three questions: First - whatever happened to your medical health care plan? Second - why would you run for President after your husband shamed the office? And third - whatever happened to all those things you took when you left the White House?"
Just then the bell rings for recess. Hillary Clinton informs the kiddies that they will continue after recess.
When they resume Hillary says, "Okay where were we? Oh, that's right, question time. Who has a question?"
A different little boy puts his hand up; Hillary points him out and asks him what his name is.
"Larry."
"And what is your question?"
"I have five questions: First - whatever happened to your medical health care plan? Second - why would you run for President after your husband shamed the office? Third - whatever happened to all those things you took when you left the White House? Fourth - why did the recess bell go off 20 minutes early? And fifth - what happened to Kenneth?"
Matt Macchiarolo wrote:
You could easily substitute Pres Bush and three questions "What did Iraq have to do with 9/11?" "Where are Iraq's WMD's?" and "Why haven't we caught Osama Bin Laden?"
Larry's last two questions would remain the same.
:-)
That's right. Bin Laden is still running around free.
This one is for you Bill...
Off Topic: Hillary in the classroom
Hillary Clinton goes to a primary school in Ithaca, New York, to talk about the world. After her talk she offers question time. One little boy puts up his hand, and the senator asks him what his name is.
"Kenneth."
"And what is your question, Kenneth?"
"I have three questions: First - whatever happened to your medical health care plan? Second - why would you run for President after your husband shamed the office? And third - whatever happened to all those things you took when you left the White House?"
Just then the bell rings for recess. Hillary Clinton informs the kiddies that they will continue after recess.
When they resume Hillary says, "Okay where were we? Oh, that's right, question time. Who has a question?"
A different little boy puts his hand up; Hillary points him out and asks him what his name is.
"Larry."
"And what is your question?"
"I have five questions: First - whatever happened to your medical health care plan? Second - why would you run for President after your husband shamed the office? Third - whatever happened to all those things you took when you left the White House? Fourth - why did the recess bell go off 20 minutes early? And fifth - what happened to Kenneth?"
"proudliberal" in=20
Logical fallacy... you don't get to impugn the source, you have to argue the science. The NOAA stuff wasn't from anywhere but NOAA, btw.
Not science. No mention of ozone layer anywhere. C'mon, Nate! If what you say is true, then you should at *least* be able to find some decent links about it. __ Steve .
lol youre basing your statements upon the credibility of the source! if the source is a self-serving governmental entity its conclusions are suspect at _best_. give me something conclusive from the scientific community.
because it will never reach the ozone. as it clearly stated, it falls because it is heavier than air.
Service manuals are not the bible. Any reasonably good tech knows that they are only the starting point for thinking. Set the simplistic language of service manuals for one moment and apply your problem solving thought processes to other observable world phenomena: Water vapor is heavier than air. We know this because fog is water vapor and it lays near the ground. IF you follow the heavier than air argument as absolute truth, then clouds cannot exist. For example, if you take an average cumulus cloud, it will be about a mile square by about half a mile thick and will have a water vapor/ice crystal weight of about 2000 tons. That is certainly "heavier than air". How is that possible when some service manual says vapors heaver than air irrevocably fall to the ground? The answer is yes vapors heaver than air fall, in a localized environment, like immediately adjacent to a leaking line, but, like a water drop evaporating and eventually becoming part of a cloud, it will diffuse into the atmosphere.
-- jeff
Ye gods! Logic being reintroduced at this point? Who would've thunk!
/Peter
So if you don't see them in the land of fruits and nuts they don't exist? Hazy, Hot and Humid in Vermont. Buckets of that heavier than air stuff coming down almost daily. Good thing I got holes in the bottom of my Jeep. Some by design, some by decay....
MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.