Applying for licence after ban

In principle, I'd actually agree. Depends what the numberonna actually is, though. The alcohol limit is so high that anyone who exceeds it - never mind double it - pretty well has to be dangerous.

I think speed limits are counter-productive, I'd like to see them abolished completely - that doesn't mean I'm ever going to approve of someone doing 120mph through a town centre.

(Monaco excepted, of course)

You should note, however, that a hardened drinker is more tolerant to the effects of alcohol than an occasional one. Not defending drinking and driving in any way, just making a point.

Dave Plowman (News) ( snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

And, from later in that same post...

You stated that you never drove whilst incapable of handling the vehicle.

Yet you're banned for DD so you clearly did.

Looks like you've not learned anything.

It wasn't his fault at all. Those bollards jumped out into the middle of the road.

That would be a justification for a total ban. However, we don't have a total ban - we are allowed to drive with a certain level of blood alcohol, and that will affect some drivers very much more than others.

It's just another numberonnastick - albeit a swizzle stick.

Ian

PS My point is, of course, that it's actually quite a reasonable way of setting a limit for drink driving, although some people under the limit will be unacceptably dangerous and some people over it will be acceptably safe. Just like speed limits ...

I'd go along with that. Except that quite a few people think that the current alcohol limit is a fair bit too hig. I haven't ever heard that about *any* speed limit.

I always thought the merkin style sobriety tests are just to prove they had adequate reason to drag you back to the station for a blood test. Not sure why a ballpark figure (but closer than the sobriety test) from a breathalyser can't be used.

Bob

I think it varies by State.

Chris

I`d be happy to see variable speed limits. Why should I have to drive past my local school at 20mph at 4AM, when there is litteraly nobody else awake? The problem with speed limits is that some people see them as targets - the limit is 30, so it must be safe to do 30.

As another poster has said, at any point while someone is speeding, they can choose to slow down to a more appropriate speed. Someone who has been drinking can`t suddenly sober up, and so is more likely to continue their journey in a dangerous state.

I do have very little sympathy for anyone caught by a speed camera though. If you can`t see the white lines on the road and the (mostly) reflective yellow box, you`re not paying enough attention to be driving as fast as you are :-)

PC Paul ( snipped-for-privacy@bitrot.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

NSL is way too high for many rural lanes - which form about 80% of my current commute.

But it's easily possible to drive slower than the limit when required. It's not possible to quickly sober up when required.

Simon Finnigan ( snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Is that a problem with speed limits?

I recently followed somebody down an A-road NSL s/c. At 40.

Until we reached a 50 limit - when they sped up to 50.

Y&es it is a problem. You have cars trying to do 70 on a motorway when the rain is pouring down and you can`t see past the end of your bonnet (not quite, but you get the idea). And there are still people driving at 70 or faster, inches away from each others bumper, and when one of them hits standing water it gets messy. Ditto for normal roads - 30mph down a road may be fine at 10AM, but at 8:30AM when the kids are going to school it is likely to be too fast to be safe.

Simon Finnigan ( snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

My point was more "Is it a problem with speed limits - or is it a problem with drivers?"

Is it a problem with drivers that's exacerbated by the repeated assertion that 30mph is safe, 31mph is dangerous...?

I think the general problem is that a lot of drivers don`t have the skills required to drive safely, full stop. For example, today - 2 cars driving along at 90 mph drove into a torrential downpour of rain, which had the fairly predictable result of making them have a slight disagreement. The disagreement spread bits of both cars all over 5 lanes of motorway (3 of the direction they where going, and 2 going the other way). How complicated is it to think to yourself "Hang on, my visiblity has suddenly reduced massively, my traction on the road surface has reduced massively, why don`t I pick a safe speed for the conditions"? Drivers simply aren`t aware enough of what is going on around them and what a car can and can`t do - braking hard at speed on a sharp corner is not a good idea, but people keep on doing it! Theres a lot of room for further driver education - skid pans etc to show what happens when it goes wrong. I know the "bad" drivers i`ve seen that go on a skid pan course realise just how little control you have when the car decides it`s had enough of doing what you want ti to, and have tended to drive within their limitations a lot more since learning this.

The problem is, what can you do? All I can think of is driver education, and we all know how much attention most people pay to their cars and driving. :-(

Simon Finnigan ( snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Would driving right up the arse of each other at 70 through the downpour have been safe?

Of course not. But "Speed Kills" would suggest it's all that's needed.

Exactly. "Speed Kills" is overly simplistic and breeds a false sense of security.

Which is why regular retests to a stronger standard is the only answer.

It would have been a lot safer. The point is that they didn`t adjust their speed in any way, despite coming into such a downpour. While a vehicle may be safe at 90mph in nice weather, there`s no way it`s going to be safe to drive at 90 when you have standing water, standing traffic and visibility too bad to see even half your stopping distance.

I don`t say speed kills. Inappropriate speed DOES kill however, and is down to the problem of people not being aware of what is happening around them.

Simon Finnigan ( snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

You mean "slightly less suicidal"

I'd suggest it was far more than just their speed they didn't adjust.

You don't, no.

Inappropriate speed can be just one symptom - but it's stupidity, inattention and lack of awareness that *really* kill.

Exactly.