Torque Steer

hmm - on track I reckon the Ka - though the Merc has more power and torque the corners would be interesting - ESP on it would be slow, ESP off it would be frightening.

Thats fine. Now you know why they dont understeer ALL the time. Just almost all of it. And its an out of control moment. rear drive does the exact opposite and can understeer on the initial turn in due to the cars yaw inertia for an instant if you yank the wheel hard enough. But it doesent last long enough unless grip is very very low (snow/wet grass/oily roundabout in rain) to be any concern.

Can I add that this all applies only to handling under power - in a neutral straight ahead state all cars will understeer due to the tendency for them to go straight on.

You need to lift off in a 306 at speed ;)

Richard (no, I haven't done it - moderation in everything - but I've seen the results of people doing it).

But it's fun! I used to use it in the 306 all the time, subtle-like. It's a shame the rest of the car was pants, because even the cabrio chassis was good.

Richard

Whoever wrote that needs to go look up how a 911 is made...

Richard

You may find your argument dismissed out of hand... :)

You didn't educate me nor demonstrate anything in a coherent manner. But you have confirmed that your statements earlier were inaccurate.

Were the hard tops stiffer? D'oh. The 306s I used to punt about Norwich were a hoot. Best of both worlds in many respects: 1.9 XUDT, usable handling, quiet, blah blah.

No its not about straight line although it does it there too, but about the momentum or rather rotational inertia or lack of that causes it initially when turning in or when turning in more while already cornering. This is a pretty minor effect though compared to the fwd/rwd under/over effect.

Not dismissed. But what is this mysterious force that wants to make them go straight on? If its inertia then it applies equally to both ends. If its yaw or rotational inertia (and it has none yet if going straight) then it needs to be added. This comes from turning the wheels. Once turn rate is acomplished (in degrees per sec from above) then there is no extra force needed to keep this rotation so it vanishes.

If you say so. OK then FWD does not understeer horrible, does not have torque steer, etc etc and you know way more than all the physics profs...

Cant be bothered any more.

Inertia. The property of an object in motion to tend to continue in the same direction unless deflected by some other force.

Car moving forwards. Turn steering wheel left. Friction encourages front of car to move left. Inertia makes it want to continue forwards. Understeer. If power is applied on FWD then reduction of front grip (being used to apply drive) available for turning makes more understeer. If power is applied on RWD then the rear wheels will attempt to push straight on while fronts move left - oversteer.

If done under braking then weight moves forwards, grip at rear is reduced, front is increased, front "digs in" and moves left, rear continues straight on with reduced grip - oversteer (lift off / trail brake)

Maybe we should all get rental A-Classes (A-Classii?) for the day?

You know you are dead and buried when you start to worry about kiddy seats on a car. Time for you to buy some cardigans and a pipe.

He's got a people carrier. So, in the words of Clarkson, he's saying to the world 'I've done my bit for the species, and I'm waiting to die'.

Of course, he has one of these so he could always do this to it...

Done it; I was trying to out-handle a Renault 21 Quadra round a roundabout in a 1 litre Nova (seriously). One secound it was 'holy shit, I'm going quicker than the Quadra', the next it was 'holy shit, I'm going backwards'...

"No-one forced you to get one"

HTH

-- JackH

Things you learn off t'internet, eh?

I think I've made my 911 go sideways twice in the last 12 months. Once was foolishly attempting to keep up with a Lotus Exige on a twisty B road, the other time was on a very dieselly roundabout - that was *interesting*