Torque Steer

Hmmmmmm dieselly roundabout...

Hmm, best tell the team I won't be there for qualifying next saturday then...

Clarkson has a 4x4 for the school run. He said so himself. But he's Clarkson so it mush be ok. Bah, I could outdrive that balding curly-haired wannabe any day of the week :P

Nice, wonder what it'll go for...

Didn't get it for track days...

And there, Channel 5, VBH thrashing an A class around anglesey circuit...

However he shortcuts down a dirt track.

And across a field one time, I remember ;)

Didn't get the 106 for track days either... but it's nice to know it'll happily do one if / when the need arises... even if it's a 'French shitbox'.

-- JackH

After watching VBH last night, I reckon the A class will do one if the need arises.

I miss sideways. Last 3 cars have been 2 WRX and a Skyline GTR. The GTR you could get sideways but it took a LOT of prompting. 4 wheel driftts are fun however.

Fraser

5h Gear demonstrated how much "better" a 4wd Audi RS4 is than RWD BMW M3.

From a driving perspective the RWD was better but in normal cornering

4wd is quicker. It's got more grip and goes quicker but the driver feel and response is far less satisfing. The car goes the round the corner even if a numpty is driving. It's not the driver's ablity "I made it do that", it's the car's. 4wd has an all on, all off action that's needs extreme methods to get it sideways and you can't put it where you wantor have to when it is, so it's basically out of control. While the sideways action of a RWD M3 is controllable and the car is still under control. When Tiff demanded that Jason exit the drift running down the outside kerb and not the middle of the road that's exactly what Jason was able to do. 4wd is for people who would rather not drive any more but still want to go quick.

-- Peter Hill Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header Can of worms - what every fisherman wants. Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!

-- JackH

To be fair though, the angle of sideways that Tiff got in the 4wd was feckin impressive :-)

Last time I saw anything that sideways it was a pickup truck, in fresh snow, about 50m in front of me. He got it back in line when he sussed he had take his foot off the brake pedal. He had just taken a little dab on the approach to a parked car, half up on pavement on the inside of a curve with a slight crest. Damm good job nothing was coming the other way.

-- Peter Hill Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header Can of worms - what every fisherman wants. Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!

Jason's slides were actually very impressive too I thought, very controlled, especially considering he's used to racing FWD BTCC cars.

Did they put Vitaras on track...?

err sorry mate, I drive a FWD car with 200hp, it has no torque steer. To imply FWD is like some unguided missile is just bollocks.

Front engine - RWD is primitive engineering in my mind - propshafts, diffs, drivetrain losses, etc. Not forgetting cart springs and live axles - even on some 'modern' designs...Some of the worst cars I've driven were RWD....

Apart from the more elegant design/packaging benefits of FWD It's physically more stable to be pulled. (OK I guess a negative for childish antics) and it's been proven in rallycross that a good FWD will get round a track quicker....

Now as a good enginering solution I can accept MID-ENGINE RWD, nothing wrong with that....

No torque steer? Then find a damp narrow uneven road. With cars parked either side. 200bhp isnt much but on a uneven wet surface it will be enough if only in first or second gears to cause wheelspin. Unequal wheelsping because of the bumps. You cant grab the steering wheel remember. Now set off and floor it changing gear hard etc and count how many times you bounce of the parked cars... This is basic physics. To say you have no torque steer is just saying you dont understand either what it is or how it occurs. The fact that the wheel losing traction first is giving less forward "thrust" means that the other wheel pulls the steering towards the slipping one. The torque supplied to both wheels would be exactly halved by the diff do this couldnt occur (unless you have a lsd which makes it worse) exept for the fact that the slipping wheel is accelerating. It has mass. it therefore still presents a load to the diff. So the other wheel Gets both the inertial mass loasd and the slipping wheel load presented an the split load. Cannot ever be avoided.

Theres the problem. Your mind! We are concerned with the facts not your opinions!

propshafts,

Agreed propshafts are additional but lose nothing worth worrying about according to the dyno.

You mean you think your car has no diff? Or drivetrain losses? The only difference is the propshaft!

Not forgetting cart springs and live axles - even on

What has the suspension got to do with it? You can design good or bad suspension for any car... You are confusing your logic.

No its not! Show your "working out" rather than your opinion!

(OK I guess a negative for childish antics) and

It has? Even if it has driving about in mud hardly relates to the real world on tarmac. Why do you thing all the proper cars and proper race cars are rear drive.

No its ideal

Oh god not this again...

FWIW - on this Clarkson vid here, he plants a Cooper S Works in a straight line, and exclaims repeatedly, "Look, NO torque steer".

Burgerman is spot on regarding this subject...............I suggest that you spend a little less time talking out of your arse!

k