Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison?

Reality check - what percentage of cars do you think are retired from service because of an engine "worn out" due to oil related wear (as opposed to failures related to the fuel, ignition, sensors, or other non-lubricated component)? I am guessing it is a very low percentage. I think rust, accidents, and transmission problems are all a lot more likely to be the reason that a car is junked than a worn out engine (well unless you are driving a Toyota with one of the sludge prone engines). No one I know has ever gotten rid of a car because the engine was worn out. I know it happens, but just not very often. My older sister is the queen of ignoring maintenance, and even she has never worn out an engine. The engine in the 12 year old Honda she just sold ran just fine. The rest of the car was crap, but the engine was fine and it never had oil changes more often than 7500 miles and often a lot less often. Nothing better than conventional Havoline was every used in the crank case (but she did get decent Wix filters).

Ed

Come on, YOU know better than to infer a trend from one data point. How many other things could have happened to ruin that engine?

And last time I looked, Briggs has withdrawn any anti-synthetic recommendations they had. Probably more a case of CYA than engineering.

If that were really true, then how do they meet the API specs for flow? WAAAAY back in the dawn of synthetics, there were claims- possibly quite true- about their lack of proper lubrication for the vertical surfaces of some automotive engine thrust bearings, but that was addressed by the oil makers 20+ years ago. If there were really that sort of difference persisting to this day, it would show up lots of other places, not JUST in air-cooled small engines. I just don't see it.

Like everything, its a trade-off. If every car owner went to a 6000-mile versus the ridiculously short 3000 mile change interval, the savings in crude oil or natural gas (the raw material for synthetic oils), the reduction in energy required to produce the oil, and the reduced load on the recycling infrastructure would be non-negligible. And since acid increase starts the first time you turn the key, its better to use a better additive package even if you KEEP your short drain interval, too. On the other hand, buying an oil that CAN keep a reasonable TBN until

And I suspect the ones retired from service for all non-engine problems combined is far smaller than those retired from service because the owners just wanted something newer and flashier.

Just simply conserving by doing any number of things would have a far far greater impact. But nothing gets the people who are pretty much careless in conserving in almost every other respect so riled up as finding out someone is changing oil at 3000 miles.

-jim

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I think the price of the ExtraGuard is closer to $3 at Walmart, although I admit I haven't checked the price recently.

Even though I explicitly mentioned to you the ExtendedGuard filter (which costs about $11) you are still ignoring it as though it does not exist. By your won admission you have never examined one.

Fram also makes a Racing Oil filter, which although I have not used, I assume it is of suitable quality (not sure if there is a problem with using it in a normal street application).

The point is not whether Fram filters are too expensive compared to others, the problem is that you claimed all Fram filters are junk, when the fact is they make some excellent quality filters in addition to the less expensive ones.

So please, if you don't like the Fram ExtraGuard or you think the ExtendedGuard is overpriced, that is fine, but don't lump all Fram filter together.

Oh, it doesn't rile me. Just pointing out one line of reasoning. Outlawing daytime running lights would probably save a similar amount of energy each year and I'd heartily approve. So would lowering speed limits, but I'm ABSOLUTELY against doing that. Everyone has their own idea of what should be conserved, and it usually involves things that annoy us anyway.

Besides, more recycled oil means more fuel for the excursion railways' oil-fired steam locomotives to burn :-)

People put pin stripes on their cars also. It doesn't make their car run better or last longer. Why doesn't anyone rant about that for a while?

The fact is if you have 2 engines with 150000 miles and one has had 3000 mile oil changes and one has had 6000 mile oil changes you can tell the difference if you look on the inside of the engine. That does not mean one is going to last longer or one will run better, but you can tell the difference.

Some people wash there car regularly some people don't.

Some people have a life. Others don't, so they spend their time worrying about how often other people change their oil or what filter they use.

-jim

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That is a big fat juicy crock.

Most of the SGEs I know of people NEVER change the oil and just top it off and they run for eons. Please....

Until they put a window in it ALL Fram filters are junk. And, isn't "extra guard" the one that contains Teflon?? Yeah, great idea there.

No, the ExtraGuard is the cheapo $3-4 filter. The one with Teflon/PTFE inside is not on their website (that I can see), but I think it was called the DoubleGuard. Some of the current filters have PTFE on the exterior gaskets. On the website they list the ExtraGuard, ToughGuard, ExtendedGuard, and Racing filter (apparently some Ford and Chevys only), and an additional one sold in Canada. They also have a high-mileage filter, presumably with the same chemicals found in high mileage oil being marketed these days (works OK if you have some sort of problem, like minor leaking and/or minor oil burning).

I will admit that the ExtraGuard and ToughGuard are crappy and mediocre respectively, but the ExtendedGuard is quite well made (should be for about $10-$11), and I don't see how anyone can question the build quality. The ExtendedGuard and Racing oil filters may be expensive, but they are very good/excellent filters. I generally use the Mobil 1 filter, but when not available I use the Fram ExtendedGuard filter.

If you want to see the inside of the Fram filters, check out this website (click on "Technology" for the filter you want info on).

This is unfortunately a known issue on these cars. But in Driver's Ed, didn't your nephew get taught to run his eyes across the gauges every couple minutes and make sure everything was okay? You gotta watch them.

Look, if the driver isn't watching the gauges, who is to say a red light or a buzzer or a gadget that pokes him in the side is going to do any good either? I recently saw a Corolla whose engine had melted down into slag. The owner noted that the oil light had been on for a couple weeks and he kept meaning to have it checked.

It's important to pay attention to the gauges.... that's what they are there for.

Your nephew's problem MAY have been accelerated by the fact that a lot of newer BMWs don't have real temperature gauges any more, just gadgets with a needle that indicate three positions. Seems BMW doesn't trust modern drivers either.

--scott

Scott Dorsey wrote: .

I used to make the same argument. But the truth of the matter is that an audible warning when any one gauge goes out of range isn't a bad thing. Airbus and Boeing do it that way now, it just is another way of reducing operator workload and allowing better focus on one task at a time.

There's no cure for stupid, on that I do agree. People still have to know that if its the temp gauge going out of range, they can turn off the AC, turn on the heat full blast, and look for the next safe place to pull over. But if its the oil pressure gauge sitting at zero, they better cut the engine and coast to a stop NOW. But most people still think that the oil pressure gauge or light means they might need to top off the oil tomorrow or next week. Sheesh.

Please God, Make it stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Debates about motor oil and oil filters will continue long after Armageddon.

Goto >File >Messages >Ignore thread. Simple.

with computer controls it would be entirely software to shut down the car now. Well an over-ride switch is probably needed in case its just a sensor issue a person needs to get home, that might add 25 cents to the cost. Then again some magic combination of control usages could do it do, so it's back to software.

Our local high school still offers driver's ed.