Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison?

Come on, you can't really believe this...

I am sure you can find legions of people that will swear this part or that part is better than the OE part (take you pick, brake pads, exhaust parts, shocks, ball joints, belts, hoses, tires, etc., etc., etc.). I have a preference for OE parts myself, but "any" with one possible exception? Seems way to broad to be credible. I can state for a fact that a Walker aftermarket muffler for a 1997 Honda Civic lasted longer than the OE and one Honda factory replacement (car had three muffles in 10 years the original, one Honda replacement, one Walker).

Ed

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

THAT explains it. Its a religious thing, not a fact-based thing.

;-)

Yeah. And gravity is a domestic thing, too.

They're out there, in spades. The aftermarket frequently comes up with "problem solver" replacement parts a long time before the OEM even fesses up to a defect (particularly Toyota, which never admits anything until the numbers are overwhelming and the internet is on fire with complaints).

One of my FLAPS friends told me that they have to do better, or they would be out of business. You couldnt sell OEM problematic plenums in the aftermarket for nearly ten years.....Your customers would take your scalp.

I can remember a time when Chrysler put out a long series of substandard master cylinders...The cure was to replace it with EIS or some other aftermarket unit.

There are many examples of this.

Of course they often do. However they will be built to the OEM's specs more often than not. Odds are the OEM filter is the only one that was tested on a particular engine or engine/vehicle combo. I responding to the requirement of test data. At least I know that Ford tested with the motorcraft filter.

Steve wrote in news:56qdnYPdccwLvbbUnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@texas.net:

Naughty boy. Those just happen to be the two cars we own at the moment.

OEM specs are often not good enough to assure quality. Ford and GM probably do not make their filters but may issue minimum specs. MINIMUM.

Buy what you want. But if you are going to argue quality, you need data. And no one yet has put any data on the board.

Why do I have to keep re-inserting the context? How do you judge if an aftermarket oil filter is *BETTER*? The ultimate way is *TESTING*. Generally, the only one that has been tested for any given application is the OEM filter.

The 'minimum' specs aren't going to be filtering ability they are going to specifications of dimensions, filering media material, construction, and so on. They aren't likely to specified as filter performance but the actual design of the filter itself.

There are very few things that one simply gives performace specs for and the size of the box and then has the vendor just do whatever they want for the inside. That's usually very very foolish. The exception would be commodity parts like resistors or capacitors or something like that, but a full assembly like an oil filter where the materials and internal mechanical design are important is highly unlikely.

Involvement with the filter vendor? Sure thing. Maybe even encorporate the vendor's drawings, but 'black box' that does 'X'. I would be shocked if that were case. The manufacturers have too much riding through the warranty period to take that kind of risk.

You have proof of Amsoil lying? If you do I am sure that by all means a lot of people would be interested in it.

The three that I have cut open certainly were. I may have had some other fibers in it to make it a bit tougher, but it tore like cardboard. In fact one of the three I opened the cardboard end cap had partially separated from the filter media creating a spot where unfiltered oil could easily leak through. THAT was the last Fram filter I ever bought, changed to NAPA Gold which at that time had been rated #1 by someone, I think maybe Consumer Reports.

I don't think Byron Selbrede "leaked" anything since he is Amsoil's technical services manager. That would also explain complaints from the motorcycle crowd about Amsoil lowering the phosphorous content in the regular oil until the separated and made a motor cycle oil. Which has happened since that email was sent.

Oh sorry, cardboard gasket material. Which is still AFAIC very inferior to a steel cap that is crimped and filled with epoxy.

You're kidding, right?? How many thousands of after market upgrades are available for a Tundra and a Titan? Just as they are for Mustangs and Firebirds....

I've never actually seen a Fram end cap detached when I opened a filter, but I have easily detached them. Calling the end caps gasket material is really a stretch. It makes the material sound better than it is, even if it is exactly the same material as used in some gasket somewhere. Gaskets are supported on both sides by solid materials that compress the gasket material to create a seal. The Fram end caps are glued to paper on one side and unsupported on the other. This is a totally different application and the requirements are completely different than for paper used for actual gaskets. Calling the end cap material, "gasket material" says nothing about it suitability for use as an end cap in an oil filter.

NAPA Gold = Wix. The P/Ns are even obviously related. Wix filters are good quality filter at a price comparable to Fram's cheapest filters ( the PH line). The quality of the materials used is far superior and WIX even provides actual performance information (for an example see

I see I'm getting a lot of responses about filters which I appreciate, to clarify, I was asking about oil & filters

I see I'm getting a lot of responses about filters which I appreciate, to clarify, I was asking about oil & filters

I dont think you will the find really objective data on oil either. It exists, but for the most part the marketing arms of the formulators create the product information for the adverts.

Some of these tests can be obtained for a price, and IIRC it is a substantial price.

. The manufacturers have too much riding

I would think that not only the vehicle manufacturer has a lot of exposure, but also the filter manufacturer which sells to aftermarket (like Walmart, for instance) would enter into a chain of responsibility for damage.

If you want a cheapo filter, they are on the market. You have to pay for quality, although not necessarily dealer's prices.

I have used Fram filters in the past, and have never had an incident with them at all.

I use a NAPA filter on our Avalon, and "whatever" on my old van.

If you want the best oil, get a full synthetic. I don't think anyone will argue that, but some people will say you are wasting your money (but I think you are wasting your money in most cases if you don't use synthetic). Some of the other companies are trying to compete against Mobil 1 more heavily, and you may be able to find some good deals in a full synthetic.

Next best would be a synthetic blend (or you could blend your own regular and synthetic oil). Even quart synthetic mixed with 4 quarts conventional will make a difference.

If you have a brand new car, I would wait until the first regularly scheduled oil change before switching to synthetic to give time for your piston rings to seat properly. If you have an older car that has never run on synthetic previously, I would use a higher viscosity synthetic (10W-30 or

If you are trying to find the best conventional oil, the major brand names are about the same if they have the same API rating on the side of the bottle.

I wont argue either way, because I have seen no hard data to compare this generation's synthetics with this generations dino oils.

I continue to use high quality dino oil, because I change at 3000-3500 mile intervals and will continue to do so.

I have heard that the high quality dino oils are "about" the same quality as the synthetics at this point. Strictly word of mouth, again no credible data either way.

IMO, if it is to your advantage to run very low viscosity oils, synthetics may be your best or only choice.