Losing control of the fuel efficiency debate

I'm curious, wondering if there is something other than the 4.6 which I have in my 97 T-Bird. Having just replaced the mickey mouse factory composite intake manifold, changed plugs and switched to a lighter oil my Bird is running better than ever. That means 17 around town, and

25/26 on the freeways with cruise control set at 70. I consider this pretty remarkable since it is better in both local and freeway than our little Chevy S-10 pickup with a 4 cyl engine.

The Vic *has* to weigh more than the T-Bird so if its a 4.6.............

Have fun!

Interesting. Not much difference between 4.6 and 3.8. A Crown with a

3.8 must be a slug.

The perfect ride for old farts, who comprise the average Crown Vic customer base.

uh sorry to burst your bubble, but the crown vic customer base is police , taxi, and fleet operations. the oldsters base car is the grand marquis, or the buick .

If that noted family that can't afford a second vehicle wants some quality of life and has a camper to tow around so they can take affordable family vacations, then they sure do need that large pickup or SUV.

That's true, but based on what I DON'T see in driveways & open garages when I'm out walking, the vast majority of people have nothing to tow.

You won't see that here, either. But there's a reason:

Most garages won't accommodate a camper or trailer, so people use storage units. Storing in a driveway is not legal in many communities.

You know I'm right. Stop grasping for straws. If the number of people driving trucks now (compared to 20 years ago) was in any way proportional to the number who tow campers, NY State would be building new state parks every week, and would KOA. They're not.

The "need to tow" argument is all too frequent, but inaccurate.

Funny. I was thinking that about you. I know of three families who have two vehicles; one an SUV.

They have more than two children, mom keeps the SUV while dad drives an econo-box to work. The SUV is used to tow either boats or trailers for family activities. No other vehicle would work for these three households.

Maybe in some areas, but SoCal has quite a bit of money. People here are obsessed with outdoor activities due to a climate which permits it all year long.

In this case, your thinking is insular.

To save typing, let's just say "trucks" to mean pickups & SUVs.

I'm gonna have to bludgeon you with an article I saw last year, which showed stats from the NY motor vehicle bureau. Essentially, what it showed was the enormous increase in registered trucks over the past 15 years, and a miniscule increase in the number of registered trailers. Of course, you don't need data to know this. You only need eyes when driving. I'll try and find the article, or the data at the DMV web site.

So much for the towing question.

Never mention how many kids someone has when you're trying to justify the purchase of a truck. You already know why.

There you go again. NY is not the rest of the country, Joe. That's what I meant by "insular".

In NY.

No, I don't. If you've got two or more kids, want to tow your RV of any kind, and have enough room and horsepower to do so, a "truck" is your only option.

So, you're pretty sure that the enormous increase in registered trucks in CA over the past 20 years is directly proportional to the number of towed toys?

You need to separate kids from towing. Some people buy a truck because of the kid factor, and never tow anything.

Nope. Not the entire state, just SoCal. I'm serious when I say you'd be shocked as to the number of toys here.

Can't do that. They go hand-in-hand. Kids and off-roading, camping, or boating are nearly a way of life here. Even boats are now hybrids for fishing/skiing/wake-boarding. You should bother to look up literally how many BILLIONS of dollars are spent in the U.S. each year for fresh-water bass fishing alone.

What make you believe what other buyer chose to by has anything to do what you chose to buy?

What make you believe it is your job to decide what people chose to buy?

Kids and towing are not a factor all over America. You know that.

Now that we've established this fact, tell me why an SUV will carry 3 kids better than a minivan that gets 10 more miles per gallon.

You never saw me say that.

You never saw me say that.