Timing Belt Replacement

GM; the 1.8 /2.0 liter OHC engine used in certain "J" chassis vehicles (aka the Brazil motor) The GM "Quad 4" engine uses a timing chain driven water pump, shall we include it also?) Ford; 1.6 and 1.9 liter engines used in the Escort, Mercury Tracer Chrysler; 3.2 and 3.5 liter V6 used in the LH, Prowler, etc. (the 2.7 V6 uses the timing chain to drive the water pump, shall we include it also?) Honda; 1.5 liter used in the Civic Toyota; 2.2 4 cyl and 3.0 V6 used for like forever

I think all together, that accounts for MILLIONS of vehicles produced

Then there's a LOT you haven't seen.

Means nothing.

You don't know what you don't know.

This discussion/your advice is specifically devoted to YOUR vehicle?

Now I know what "Retired VIP" means. Retired Very Ignorant Person. It figures.

And so you drive a________?

Those 'plastic' gears left me stranded two times with a 1964 Ventura V8. I only had about 40,000 miles on it the first time and about that many more the second time. I bought that one new. I was told after I bought it by a shade tree machenic freind of mine that I would be lucky to get 50 K out of that gear.

Actually, it's recommended to change the belt at the proper mileage, since they can 'look' OK but be going bad.

That said, I took a look at the belts in my Legacy and decided they were OK

One of the worst engines ever made for people who ignore maintenance. On this car, you have to follow the schedule in the book, or... "now the truck is headed for the junk yard..."

And yet, you made a pretty definite statement about the RARITY of belt-driven water pumps, as if to say that if you haven't seen something, it barely exists.

"I have never seen a waterpump driven that way, they have always been driven by a fan belt or the serpentine belt. It is far easier to drive a water pump from outside the motor than from inside, this would make it very rare to drive a water pump by using the timing belt."

Exactly how does such an engine differ from the other type?

I observed a long time ago how ironic it was that the very cheapest cars made (100% of *everything* coming out of Korea) - the very ones that were most likely to be owned by people ignorant of the absolute necessity to change the timing belt on schedule - had engines with timing belts *and* were interference design.

Interesting to look at the list of cars of Korean manufacture in the Gates Timing Belt Handbook - not a one without the asterisk next to it.

Intentional, or just happened that way?

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

No, but your discussion does not cover every vehicle made either.

The drawback to gear-driven camshafts is that gears tend to be noisier than chains or belts, and implementation would require more lubrication. In engines with overhead camshafts, multiple gears would be needed due to the distance between the crankshaft and camshafts.

A magnetic coupler is an interesting idea, perhaps the barrier to implementation is that the magnet would have to be fairly large to drive the pump.

Dealership and independent service departments generally use a retail labor time guide like Mitchell, Motor, Chiltons, etc. to look up the labor times for a particular labor operation. They are supposed to look up the labor time for the deepest operation, and then look at the chart for any add-ons, like replacing the water pump along with the timing belt. As for the 50 or so Toyota dealers I've visited, none charged extra labor for accessory drive belt replacement when changing the timing belt.

What makes you believe that?

Where do you come up with three?

(It's called Phat Phingers...)

This is for a '98 Camry:

Not quite the same thing. You have to remove the timing belt to replace the water pump.

Again, you have to remove the timing belts to replace the head gaskets. So I guess if you reuse the old timing belts, it's included in the $1200 price, but to install new belts instead, add $300?

Don't drink so early in the day, eh?

All the early Hyundais I saw, starting with the Pony in Canada, had engines either licensed from, or based on Mitsubishi engines, and IIRC all Mitsu engines are Interference...

But they do charge the full labor rate when replacing the water pump at same time as timing belt change, even if the customer pays full rate for a timing belt change.

Hmmm...the tech at the Chrysler dealer owned by the Toyta dealer I worked for said Interference...

At any rate, it's gone noe...I traded it for $600 towards a Scion tC I bought.

For $600 I should have kept it. It was mint!