If Ford had Cummins?

Page 2 of 13  


A quick (very quick - as in, first hit) Google search turned up the following: http://www.asq.org/economic-case/markets/pdf/case-study-24516-six-sigma-saves.pdf
where they claim a 17% failure rate of the lift pump over the entire warranty period. They don't break that down by years, but I would assume it includes '98.5 through '04.5 (the years of an electric lift pump mounted to the engine).
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 03:03:43 GMT, "Tom Lawrence"

thanks tom, a little "bit of facts" never hurts anyone. i have to admit, that surprises me. it is higher than i would have thought. almost one in five going bad isn't too good! good that they got it fixed.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

http://www.asq.org/economic-case/markets/pdf/case-study-24516-six-sigma-saves.pdf
according to the article tom, those stats were from before the six sigma project ("It was about a 17% failure rate over the entire warranty period [before the Six Sigma project].) which appears to have been in '01. if that is the case (and its certainly possible that im missing something) then the actual percentage would be much higher. my lift pump failed under warranty in '04. ill read the entire article a little later to see if im missing something somewhere
--
Nathan in Montana
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Certainly seems to be a high rate, but the questions it raises are:
Is it a quality issue or a location issue?
Is this solid data or just grandstanding to prove the success of a new QC program?
That said, I find it fascinating that no one I know (and I know quite a few) around my geographic area has ever had a problem, yet the failure rate is said to be 17%.
Roy, I can certainly understand the issues of any part failing and not being in stock. But I think the alarm is because of availability, which speaks to a problem other than QC, that of dealership care of the customer.
On THAT issue, DC has been lacking.
--
Max

Join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Broke = broke

data, you'd kinda have to give them the benefit of the doubt that they're not just pulling a number out of their ass.

Sounds like a conspiracy :)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yup...
There are points both for and against this, given the nature of the document quoted. I'd prefer an independant source. Second, since the Rams were Chrysler warranty problems, is the document talking about Ram failure or just Cummins installations in chassis? Third, that 17% was "within warranty period", which was 100k miles. How does that compare with fuel pumps in other vehicles in 100k? A failure in 100k is almost normal, since we all know the "nickel and dime" period is from about 70k onward. However, assuming (the big "if") the 17% is correct AND out of line with other fuel pumps, thats significant. Lots of factors are not accounted for here.

Yeah, Mike Simmons, "the guy", and my local region got all the good trucks. Oh, and Nate got one as well, since failure at 100k is... almost to be expected. Thats why I'm a bit skeptical of "rampant" problems.
--
Max

Join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

TRANSLATION --> "it proves nate right, so i will simply refute the source"
......you REALLY think anyone is buying your bullshit?

what a DUMB thing to ask. you already know the answer......so does ANYONE else who even glanced over the paper....what a pathetic spin.

no max, youre simply grasping at any straw you can at this point. :-)
squirm.
--
Nathan in Montana
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

lol as if it matters? its a FUCK UP. you were WRONG, and now youll try to piddle your way around it.
--
Nathan in Montana
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
A reply from Cummins on the issue. No hard numbers... again.
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?tS629
--
Max

Join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

lol....own it max, youll feel better. :-)
--
Nathan in Montana
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

http://www.asq.org/economic-case/markets/pdf/case-study-24516-six-sigma-saves.pdf
So 17% is the admitted rate. How many were denied and owner repaired with a stock replacement or aftermarket fix? If the vibration issue is true it sounds like the relocation fix is the way to go. Isn't that the Vulcan fix? I've also heard if you relocate the stock lift pump you'll be denied warranty coverage because it's "modified."
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I read the same. So if you move the pump and then your injector pump goes south you eat about a 2K repair.
Roy
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Well Nate, thats because I live in reality, not this newsgroup. I look at what I can see with my own eyes and can verify through my own senses far before I look at anything said here without context or verifiable source.
That may seem strange to you, but really, its the only way to go.
--
Max

Join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

shit. ill bet in the last 5 years your posts outnumber mine at least 50 to 1.

lol.....so this justifies your arrogance as you shout IGNORANCE on this topic?
......i knew you wouldnt have the integrity to admit that YOU ARE WRONG on this, just like you never admitted to being WRONG about the existance of a 318HD. some things just never change.
--
Nathan in Montana
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Proving what?

No, it justifies looking for facts instead of screaming about random events without statistics.

Until you have proof via statisitics or documented proof, there isn't anything to admit. A single source claiming 17% failure is pretty strong.... but no one can back this, and the single best source of this failure on this newsgroup, Mike Simmons, claims pretty much what I've said...
yeah, it was a problem, but it wasn't rampant.
Back to your overreactionary bullshit.....
--
Max

Join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

proving that with THAT much time in this newsgroup one would think that you wouldnt be so IGNORANT to this RAMPANT lift pump failure issue. 1 in 5 max. 1 in 5.

you HAVE them now. thanks to tom we know that its 1 in 5, and possibly MUCH higher (if in fact that paper was from '01). that doesnt even count the number of failures from modified trucks. it is clearly an "issue", and a rampant one at that to any reasonable person without an agenda that is truly just looking for facts.
what say you? (fully expecting spin and bullshit)

OMG you are actually questioning toms source?????
holy hell......lol......thank you max. youve just proven everything ive said about you. :-)

riiiiight max. it doesnt exist. maybe not in those f450/f550s with the ISB. BUWHAHAHA! :-)
--
Nathan in Montana
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Nate, you're rounding up, 17% is more like 1 in 6. Still with all the weaseling they've done I think the actual rate is higher and I don't have any basis to guess how high it is. Whether it's 1 in 6 or higher, it's well past "lemon" status. Remember, I'm only commenting on the lift pump failure rate, not the truck.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

ok, 1 in 5.88........ill go with that. :-)
.....course, i think we'll be doing good to get max to own up to 1 in 1000.
--
Nathan in Montana
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

bullshit. i suppose my TOTALLY STOCK '01.5 was some sort of anomaly. <rolling eyes>
when you wont even acknowledge KNOWN truths it taints your entire argument. your agenda is stronger than your own truth. thats sad max, especially considering how KNOWN this issue is. need i drag up the archives of when i posted this problem in here from late '04 where many "in the know" discussed the KNOWN issue?
--
Nathan in Montana
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

If one were to believe your statements on the "crisis", MY truck would be the anomoly, with no failure and no symptoms in over 70k miles.

Again, I'll refer to the vast number of trucks versus the failure rate. Until we have a well founded rate of failure, lift pump failure isn't the crisis its being made out to be.

No, my quest for facts eliminates knee jerk reactionary crap, such as that for which you are known.

Yeah, you need to do that, but only if they contain proven information, not just alarmist reaction.
--
Max

Join www.devilbrad.com and find out what free exchange of info is all about.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.