Sad day for America

Page 5 of 16  
Mike Hunter wrote:


How are the feds telling them what to do? Evidence please.

Actually, it is the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. They were closed because there were larger hospitals that people preferred. For example, Mercy Hospital, CMC and Moses Taylor were all located in Scranton. If you're going to operate a hospital, you need to continue to improve services to keep up. Rather, the state didn't keep, and let private hospitals take over. The hospitals served their purpose. Scranton State General Hospital was not sold, but rather, the site was turned over to the VA where they now operate a nursing home for vets (they tore the hospital down and put in a new building). The nursing home opened in 1988, and the hospital was operating until it was torn down, so the hospital was operating in to the 80s; it wasn't closed in the 60s. I used to drive by it on the way to the mall.
The state still operates seven hospitals. I visited one, as well as another hospital that was run by the state in cooperation with Medical College of PA (that hospital closed because of financial problems with the medical college). AFAIK, the hospital building (as well as the Medical College PA Hospital builidng) is still there, and perhaps some space is used for the medical college (which is now part of Drexel Univ.).
However, what the Commonwealth's actions in the 60s has to do with this is beyond me. THat was a totally different time and situation.
Jeff

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dr_jeff wrote:

That statement right there supports what he was saying, and that is that in general, private owners in general will do better at that than a government that doesn't know how to compete in the marketplace.
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Bill Putney
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Bill Putney wrote:

You're making an assumption that that is the role of gov't hospitals.
Jeff
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dr_jeff wrote:

Then that further makes the point. For example, if your point is that the gov't can run a hospital without it having to be a profit center (i.e., it doesn't have to bring in more than it spends), then that further shows that costs will go way up when the gov't runs it, because they will just keep pumping more money into it to keep it open, whereas, if a private hospital is operating in the red (due to indigents, illegal aliens or whatever), they will go out of business, and pressure will be put on to fix the real problems (such as illegal immigrants) (*doesn't mean the problem will be fixed necessarily, but society will feel the pressure and see the causes in a more direct way than taxes in general going up to cover the overruns seen around the country). The gov't will just continue to raise taxes (and probably disproportionately on those with higher incomes until the higher income people will decide to stop playing the fool's game).
I know I covered a lot of stuff there, but it is all pertinent.
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Bill Putney
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It is not hard to see what will happen in the future to our healthcare costs. Look at Medicare and Medicaid TODAY. Medicare is CURRENTLY out of money and Medicaid is nearing bankruptcy. The only reason it is not yet bankrupt is because the states must pay half of its costs.

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Bill Putney wrote:

Or, alternatively, the hospital will run in the black as a business, but provide poor service for those it is supposed to serve. Just like many businesses do a good job of serving their stock brokers, but no their costumers (drug companies come to mind).

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You forgot to say it was your opinion as well, not a fact.

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If you want a to see what a government run hospital will look like in a few years, look to the military and the VA hospitals TODAY. LOL

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Mike Hunter wrote:

You mean like the "best care anywhere."
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2005/0501.longman.html
Jeff

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I guess we can assume you have never been in the Wilkes-Berre VA Hospital. There are more government employees sitting around on any given day than patients. A prime example of government healthcare workers at "work." LOL

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dr_jeff wrote:

Here are some references on how the civilized world does health care:
Sick Around the World http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld /
=================================================================== The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
"The world health report 2007 - A safer future: global public health security in the 21st century"
Full report download as a .pdf file: http://www.who.int/entity/whr/2007/whr07_en.pdf (4.15MB)
=================================================================== Healthcare For All: In Western Europe Its a Reality http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId 972152
France: Health Care for All http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId 970968
Germany: Health Care for All http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId 971170
Great Britain: Health Care for All http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId 971293
Netherlands: Health Care for All http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId 973552
Switzerland: Health Care for All http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId 974014
==================================================================== Health Care: An International Comparison http://www.npr.org/news/specials/healthcare/healthcare_profiles.html
Netherlands' Health Care Reflects National Values http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId 641635
Keeping German Doctors On A Budget Lowers Costs http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId 931036
France At Forefront Of Free, Innovative Cancer Care http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId 362918
While the U.S. Spends Heavily on Health Care, a Study Faults the Quality http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/business/17health.html
After-Hours Doctor Calls Save Holland Money http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId 606938
======================================================================== Healthcare Debate References http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/healthcare /
Side-by-side comparison the major health care reform proposals. Assembled and frequently updated by The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation. http://www.kff.org/healthreform/sidebyside.cfm
Following the Money: Health Care Use this BILL MOYERS JOURNAL guide to trace campaign contributions, ad spending and the revolving door between industry and government. http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/profile2.html
The Health Care Reform Plans Use this BILL MOYERS JOURNAL guide to follow the debate over the many health care plans. http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/profile3.html
Documents During his interview with Wendell Potter [http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/profile.html#documents ], Bill Moyers read from confidential documents drafted by America's Health Insurance Plans (AHIP) in May and June of 2007. The documents outline a unified strategy for AHIP members to prepare for the release of Michael Moore's documentary, SICKO on June 29, 2007.
You can download and read the full AHIP documents by clicking here [http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/healthcare/ahip1.pdf ] and here [http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/healthcare/ahip2.pdf ] (PDFs).
The Language of Health Care 2009 (PDF) The Frank Luntz memo strategizing opposition to health care reform Bill Moyers mentions in the interview. http://www.politico.com/static/PPM116_luntz.html
GOP Health Care Strategy (PDF) Strategy memo by Alex Castellanos dated July 7, 2009. http://www.politico.com/static/PPM41_gop_health_care_strategy_memo.html
Congressional Budget Office reports The Congressional Budget Office has released a number of documents on health care reform plans. The CBO's director also maintains a blog. http://www.cbo.gov/publications/bysubject.cfm?cat=9
--
Service Guarantees Citizenship

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dr_jeff wrote:

Maybe - so should Pennsylvania State University change its name? Virginia is also a commonwealth, but people routinely call it a state - most people don't have a problem with that. My diploma says "Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University".
Can a commonwealth also be a state? Without Googling, does anybody know the difference?
So the U.S. doesn't really have 50 states (unless you ask Obama and it's 57), but 48 states and 2 commonwealths (or are there other commonwealths besides PA and VA)? :)
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MA and KY are also commonwealths. As the name implies, the properties of the state are owned by its citizens in common and are rued by laws made for the common good. Virginia was a commonwealth before it became a state.
Countries can also be commonwealths, such as Iceland and Poland.
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The four Commonwealths Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Kentucky, were British Colonies, established before we became the REPUBLIC of Sovereign States, know as the "United States of American," and were founded on British "Common Law."

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Bill Putney wrote:

The title "commonwealth" emphasizes that the state is for the common good of its citizens. So PA is still a state, but its official title is "The Commonwealth of PA".

Three: MA, KY and Puerto Rick (which is a territory of the US).
Jeff
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If you did a search you would discover that the fact was Pennsylvania closed those Hospitals because they were loosing million of dollars every year.
The State hospital in Allentown was closed years age and the State Mental hospital in Allentown is in the process of being closed for the same reason.
The Federal government, under the current healthcare law, will take $600,000,000 OUT of Medicare which will cause more marginally profitable hospitals to close, as well.
The new bill adds a 2.3% tax on YOUR medical devices, from bedpans to X-Ray machines, that will force medical device manufactures, like B. Braun and OraSure both located Pennsylvania, hundreds millions of dollars, according to the CEO of B. Braun, which will be passed on to its customers or worse yet force them to move their manufacturing off shore.
Under the new "Healthcare" bill, the feds even get you AFTER you die. Coffins are now going to be taxed and additional 2.3% to help pay for this new disastrous bill.
The Senate changed the administration of college loans, from the private sector to Washing as part of a so called "healthcare" bill. As a result hundreds of the private sector workers in Pennsylvania will loose their jobs. Every Democrat Senator, the party of the working man, voted for that bill that takes away those good paying jobs.
If history proves anything we all know that the feds will have thee drowns, doing the jobs that one person was doing in the private sector. Is that the "Change" YOU wanted, dr_jeff? ;)
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Mike Hunter wrote:

The Allentown State Hospital is being closed because the other hosptials in the area (especially, Lehigh Valley Health Network), there will be limited economic impact and the property can be used for other uses.

Gee, if you don't pay hospitals enough, they will close. What a surprise.

Gee, they will still be taxed 2.3%.

They won't get me. I will be cremated.

Gee, the banks weren't adding anything of value to the loans. We don't owe the banks a living.

Gee, why do people deserve good-paying jobs when the job they do can just as easily administered by colleges/universities or the government without paying banks thousands of dollars to administer loans that they can't lose money on.

Three drowns? What, are they under water?

Really? Evidence please.

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On 25/03/2010 9:28 AM, Conscience wrote:

Good point. And with all the undiciplined kids today, iPods is about all they can do. That is, doctors retire and who is going to take their place?
From a human resources point of view, the next 10-20 years is going to be quite interesting.
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On 25/03/2010 9:28 AM, Conscience wrote:

Good point. And with all the undiciplined kids today, iPods is about all they can do. That is, doctors retire and who is going to take their place?
From a human resources point of view, the next 10-20 years is going to be quite interesting.
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Plus 30 million more people needing care from the doctors who remain practicing medicine after Obama gets done with them.
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