134a Refrigerant

Bill you are wrong on this one.

Bleeding hearts serve their country by NOT serving. What kind of shape would our military be in if we waffled in the wind or kept repeating "That is NOT a 155 the enemy is about to fire, that is NOT a 155 the enemy is about to fire" or refused to fire their weapon while being over-run on the grounds on the effect of cordite on the atmosphere.

no, but as hard as you try to spin i just wont let you. the individual weights dont matter until the compound is broken down. refrigerant is heavier than cholorine which is heavier than air making it even harder for refrigerant to reach the ozone than chlorine (although it would be dissolved by the sunlight much in the same way you have to keep adding chlorine to a pool).

TRANSLATION --> "im wrong so ill spin a herring"

the combined components are heavier than the individual components individually thus making it even harder for refrigerant to reach the ozone layer. a layer of refrigerant would settle below layers of the individual elements that make it up.

TRANSLATION --> "youre still right"

:-)

i dont give a damn what google says. refrigeration is not part of hvac. hvac = heating ventilation air condition. nothing in there about refrigeration. hvac/r on the other hand.....

lol so you can continue to spin away and ask the same question over and over ignoring my intial answer like a little kid not getting his way? :-) initially you choked by stating it was hvac related. secondly you choked by suggesting you could simply bypass it (thats what you get for asking someone else who is as ignorant as you). finally youve yet to give me an alternative solution to replacing a failed HMC in a pinch.

but your failure is no surprise......just add it to your long list. :-)

wow......thanks for the sincere flattery. :-)

TRANSLATION --> "im mad because i choked on it" :-)

freon is a brand name, but i wouldnt expect you to say anything factual.

lol.....only in your ignorant mind! :-) give your little explanation in a room full of experienced refrigeration techs and watch how many choke. :-)

TRANSLATION --> "i asked another ignorant fool" :-)

Never claimed it to be, I asked my question using a "per unit volume" frame of reference. The correct answer to my question is "not always."

Were you born this stupid, or did you have to take lessons at it later in life???? Miscibility of water and alcohol has nothing to do with "density" and likewise nothing to do with molecule size. BTW, three component phase diagrams are pretty cool things with some nice saddles and inflections where the miscibility gaps are. This miscibility gap is why there is only a certain amount of water that can be absorbed by dry gas, even though alcohol and gasoline are fully miscible, and water and alcohol are fully miscible.

LOL

Ok, so the "Mr. Science" answer for an eight year old satisfies you. In the words of Harry Callahan, "A man's got to know his limitations". Miscibility is the key to the closer inter-molecular packing, but since you are happy, I won't go into polar solutions, ionic substances, London Dispersion and induced dipole-dipole attraction.

Okay, if you want a more technically correct answer continue reading. Let me know if you want to go into the mathematics.

There are many examples of liquids that have a negative volume of mixing. The reasons are not always evident, and are frequently restatements of "It happens because it happens." rather than providing a fundamental explanation that can be independently tested experimentally.

In the case of ethanol and water, the "reason" is that liquid water has a rather "open" structure due to hydrogen bonding. The same is not so true of ethanol. So when the two are mixed, the ethanol interferes with this "open" structure of water and causes it to "collapse", and hence reduce the volume relative to the sum of the volumes of the components.

A related property of water is the minimum in the molar volume at about 4C (at sea level).

If a water soluble solid has an "open" structure that can be made more compact by dissolving, one would expect a similar result.

It is difficult to predict if and when it will happen because it could also depend upon the temperature and the pressure at which the components are mixed. ...

HEY NOW!! This is family channel!!

Bill: the only one making stupid statements here is you. The original question was why does a mixture water and alcohol occupy less volume than the sum of the original two volumes. Your one word answer was "density". By definition, if it has less volume it has a greater specific gravity, or "density", but this does not answer the question which was *WHY*. BillyRay's answer about molecules fitting together closer is correct as far as it goes, but that does not address the why or how of this closer packing. Miscibility, or the ability to form a single phase solution is still my answer.

Bill,

Sometimes you say things that just don't make sense. "Bleeding heart liberals" are some of the country's biggest tax payers. I would be paying taxes too, if the stock market hadn't gone in the tank, coincidentally with GWB's election.

Earle

The M-W.com definition you clipped gives two definitions for condensation The first is for processes like making condensed soup. The second is for what we classicly think of as condensation, that is the phase change of matter from one state to another, e.g. steam to water. Again, refering back to the original question, this yet another description of what has happened. You keep addressing the what, and not the why. Care to try your hand and Google up why it happens?

BTW, if you want to quibble a fine point, the mass that results from mixing water and alcohol is less than the sum of the masses since the reaction is exothermic and everyone knows that E-MC^2 ;-)

individual=20

The hard truth is, CFCs have been found in the stratosphere. The math has been done. The=20 graphs are there... going up, then slowing after CFC use was discontinued. You can fish red herrings all day, as long as you want... but the evidence is there.

Lame.

=20

Why doesn't this happen to the atmosphere in general? Why are we not drowning in Argon? Because there's only 1% Argon? That's enough to kill us all! How many percent Freon is there in the atmosphere? Why does Argon mix and Freon not? __ Steve .