Biodiesel

Err, can't remember, can't remember, and yes, in that order... This was about 6 years ago I did all this. I'll see if I can dig up where I got it from, I think I got the link from this group and the company was in Reading. (rummage) Nope, can't find it, but they're reasonably common things to find IIRC.

Cost I think was in the region of £30, and to fit it I unscrewed the fuel filter, put a supplied extension piece on the fuel feed tube to the filter and put the heat exchanger on, then put the fuel filter on the extension piece, with the heat exchanger sandwiched between it and the filter mounting. Then it was just a case of interrupting the hot water supply hose to the heater box and making it pass through the heat exchanger first, then back to the heater box. Once the engine was running, the fuel filter got pretty much too hot to touch so it was doing its job.

I thought the people that _were_ registered have been de-registered. And the only reason for registering was to pay your monthly duty payment.

Also, I believe it comes into effect officially on the 30th of the month.

Is this because they are now trying to save administration effort by getting rid of small fuel producers by making their product unable to be legally used, or is it genuinely because they're allowing people to use a small amount of untaxed fuel in their vehicles, sort of like an income tax allowance? If it's the latter, then how will they police it, which makes me think it's the former.

The following seem good.

do kits or bits.on a DIY side of things it is often recommended to get a peugeot fuel filter/housing from a scrapyard as it's already plumbed for hotwater connection.

"Exempt producers are also required to keep simple production records (date of production and quantity produced, in litres) on an ongoing basis, and retain these for six years."

No, how will they police the *use* of the fuel, in cars, on the roads, where it's still illegal to use untaxed fuel. Has there been legislation to allow the use of untaxed fuel. I'd suggest that those who can't plough through the legislation hang about and wait to see what the veg oil community comes up with. Remember that just because it's legal to produce something, doesn't mean it's legal to use it.

If it were in fact legal to use up to 2500L of bio without registering/ paying tax so long as you simply keep a paper record, then in effect it would mean people could use as much as they wished.

There would be no way to prove how much you had actually used and the plod would have to give up spot checks as you would just wave a scrap of paper in front of them saying you were within your allowance and they couldn't prove otherwise.

Car makers would be scrambling to make their engines run on high proportions of veg oil, the supermarket shelves would be empty and so would the chancellor's coffers!.

But most of all the government would be doing the fastest U turn in history to put it back the way it was 8-).

Greg

That is my view and exactly what I am doing. I have one last payment to make to HM C&E. Then I just need to keep accurate records of the amount of fuel (Veg oil) used.

RichardB

That is correct. My letter says I have been de-registered. But must maintain records at each month end and notify if I have produced more than 2500 litres in the last 12 months.

RichardB

If I read that note right, you need to keep a note of how much you produce, not use. There was a helpline on the note, best call it and ask them about the usage side of things rather than assuming that you can use it legally. This is tax collection after all, no area of law is quite so well armed!

Ian you are right to be cautious! I'll give the helpline a call to confirm that I am operating legally!

Will report back.

RichardB

I await your report with bated breath. The pessimist in me says that even were you to be running your vehicle on sea water and dog turd you'd still have to pay fuel duty. The optimist in me hopes that you're right and there's nowt to pay. The cynic in me says that if there's nowt to pay then it's a loophole that will be very quickly plugged. They say they're promoting green sources of energy, but if you have a "green" alternative (in this area anyway) it's still taxed to the nuts. Of course, were they to say ok no duty on sea water and dog turd, as soon as it caught on the taxes would reappear.

Steve

Thing is, surely the more folks that get converted to run on veg. the closer the government will be getting to their 2010 20% CO2 emmission reduction or whatever it is.

Besides which, if duty was such an issue, why is LPG so heavily subsidised? Isn't it the case that in most countries LPG is the same price as regular petrol?

My main query would be VAT. As a food product Veg. oil is VAT exempt, but surely once you open the lid with the intention of using it as "biodiesel" (in other words pouring it in your car) then from my dealings with VAT it would become a VATable product which the user should then surely be having to pay the VAT on the purchase price of the oil. regardless of whether it's got any road fuel duty applied or not.

And... following on from that... If you are VAT registered and using it for business purposes there would be little point in paying the VAT only to claim it back in the same VAT return.

It's all a bit confusing. :¬)

As you are being asked to keep records I expect that at sometime you will be asked to submit those records.........then you will have to pay tax.

Its just my experience that once a tax opportunity exists it is very rare that the government let up and let you get a benefit tax free.

We are dealing with polititians here... evil lying people , blood suckers, vermin all, soon no doubt we will be paying for the very air we breath, duty free fuel.............no chance !

Barry

I like the simple GST (=VAT) system here. Nowt is exempt (except bank charges) so the above situation doesn't arise. It makes doing the GST return bloody simple.

That's an understatement.

I maybe wrong here but i got a chuippy next door nearly and he has about

30*5 gallon oil drums of used oil outside. Would this be okay if filtered for odd scraps of potato and fishy bits, or does it have to be fresh stuff.

thank you

Thanks for the link, and I notice they've got a sale on to celebrate the change in tax rules. Very tempted now. £400 for a full DIY kit.

Next problem is most of my journeys are short runs. How long does it take to get the engine up to a suitable temperature to switch in the veg oil?

Dave.

Slightly more interesting is the following quote from the site;

---------- "Please note: we seem to have many customers who are getting confused by Revenue & Customs use of the word "producers", we have checked and it has been confirmed that USERS and PRODUCERS can be treated, for these purposes as THE SAME"

----------

I'd still wait for a month or two before comitting to anything, and I'd check with HMRC myself too, but it looks promising. I'll have to check out the viability of converting my audi to veg but suspect with the driving I do it won't be worth it.

I've just got the dieselveg kit. I think the instructions say to change over once the vehicle coolant reaches 70 deg C. or at normal operating temperature. The kit itself is very comprehensive and parts appear to be very good quality. I may have a scanned copy (3mb. PDF) of the fitting instructions if anyone is interested.

Colin