You did mention your Vito trouble earlier but I wondered if you have had more experience, given your fleet involvement.
Overall, I thought that these two manufacturers were the leaders in strength and reliability (which does not preclude lemons, of course), but maybe that was before the modern common rail...
DAS
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Agreed, but that doesn't stop anyone, especially if the nature of the fuel is irrelevant in a conversation. Just like most people go to a petrol station, whatever they are filling up with... (yes, not ideal grammar...).
DAS
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
There were two other Vito vans at the repair centre at the same time with similar problems. We also run a Renault service van with CR engine which has been fine so far. The Renault is identical to a Vauxhall and Nissan versions I believe........ no ignore that because although they come out of the same factory they may differ mechanically, I don't know for sure. Anyhow I have heard nothing bad about these. I do know that some Nissan CR engines have pump trouble of a similar kind to those described elswhere caused by improper fuelling. I am assured that they are not all caused by misuse and that the pumps are not as durable as they need to be. I also have knowledge of several BMW's with pump failures including a friends 320 diesel. I have suffered no failures personally, not even that Vito van which was not a fuel related failure after all.
My only other personal experience with Mercedes CDI is from my wifes ML270 CDi which has long been sold on. It only did some 25000 mechanically faultless miles. The build quality was appalling though. The BMW X5 which she ran after that had a few electrical problems initially causing the battery to run flat at railway stations and similar parking places where radio transmissions stopped the computers from sleeping. Also the remote locking would sometimes play up. The Range Rover she now runs is mechanically very similar to the BMW, sharing the transmission and engines plus most of the electrical system. This has been absolutely faultless in over 20,000 miles so far. It has been chipped for slightly more power and is driven quite hard when I am at the wheel. It went to the concert the other night averaging just under 100mph for about 120 miles of the 200 mile round trip. Parts are very expensive for this type of engine when they do go nwrong but in a vehicle such as this it can be justified to an extent. However an economy car with such engines fitted, such as a fiat panda or suzuki swift [which share the same Polish assembled engine] would likely be scrapped if a serious engine fault developed at five years or more of age. Let's hope that the engines are built and will last almost indeffinately with minimal repairs.
Huw
Well it certainly doesn't help anyone to stop and think before doing something silly.
Just like most people go to a petrol
I would go to a 'fuel' station, but I never do.
Huw
Thx for the comments.
I take it that the car did not actually go there by itself...
That reminds me, how were the Status Quo?
It seems to me that much of the great advantage of diesels (other than fuel economy), namely a forgiving nature vis-a-vis fuel quality, robustness and longevity, has been lost with latest technology. But of course they have gained huge torque and great performance cf petrol.
Discuss...
DAS
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "Tim S Kemp" saying something like:
I'd certainly have them as 4th. The Coast Guard may be fine body of men, but they mostly sit on their arses.
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember "N8N" saying something like:
Whoa! Back right up there....
You mean, some local official can come round and tell you what you have on your driveway isn't allowed, because he/she/it doesn't like the look of it? And you get fined for it?
Bloody cheek. Tell them to f*ck off.
Well ditto volunteer firemen. However when you want them it's damn sight more of an emergency than the AA ever deal with.
Same applies on most council estates.
The message from Grimly Curmudgeon contains these words:
It's the land of the free. The official is free to be an officious git.
The message from Duncanwood contains these words:
That's rather different - the council /owns/ the driveway!
A few years ago our then childminder had her car clamped in her driveway by the council for not paying her council tax. Since it was a council property they were quite within their rights to do it, too.
It went with two rather big gentlemen and two rather beautiful ladies.
Amazingly they are still rocking all over the world. They did a superb non-stop two hour gig of heavy rock. The only loony in the audience was stood next to my wife and he openly smoked the wacky backy all night while head-banging between spliffs.
Sensitivity to fuel quality has always been an issue with diesels. Injector pumps have never been tollerant of pollutants.
robustness and
Not necessarily. There may be certain issues with certain engines and a few teething problems with some CR systems but it was ever thus. There have been issues with the occasional design of all mechanical systems since they designed the first wheel. This is nothing new. Most modern CR and other high pressure diesel engines are quite durable, robust and reliable with a few models less reliable than others. Again it was ever thus.
But of course they have
No gain without pain? No, just new technology teething problems mostly. The most important thing is that they design these new engines to have a very long life with minimal repairs or even servicing needed so that whole life running costs are low. Repairs, should they be needed, can be frighteningly expensive and this reinforces the need for good reliable design and construction. I have a friend who ran an Audi V6 diesel to 200,000 miles on 20,000 mile oil changes and it was running sweet as a nut when he sold it, never having had a single engine fault. I saw a Discovery diesel the other day with over
280,000 miles and that had no significant life problems either. There is no reason why the newer engines should not be as good or better while offering all the economy, power and refinement benefits already noted.Huw
I'll bet the same legal system that allows that wouldn't allow a landlord to clamp a car for late rent, not that they necessarily should be able to - but why one and not the other?
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
Reminds me of the old joke: "If you want economy, you have to pay for it."
Regarding the quality, or lack thereof, for fuel needed by diesels, my dad used to always say from his days in North Africa in WWII that they, out of necessity, found that they could run a diesel engine on practically any liquid with the exception of water. Obviously that was an exaggeration, but, in comparison, things appear to have gotten rather temperamental to a fault for reasons that you bring up.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
You can still run these engines on vegetable oil through to kerosene. Given the tolerances and the emission equipment fitted, I would stick with ultra low sulphur diesel fuel, for which these engines have been designed.
Huw
The message from Bill Putney contains these words:
'Cos the law is a four legged thing that brays.
I guess your view on the Status Quo concert is subject to the Official Secrets Act... ;-)
DAS
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
Not at all. I did post this "Amazingly they are still rocking all over the world. They did a superb non-stop two hour gig of heavy rock. The only loony in the audience was stood next to my wife and he openly smoked the wacky backy all night while head-banging between spliffs." I notice in the news today that Nick Parrfit, one of the lead singers, you know, the one with long blonde hair, is suspected of having cancer of the larynx and they have had to cancel the rest of their tour. I must say that he sang like a bird at Cardiff.
Huw
Well, I wouldn't say Diesels have ever been particularly forgiving of fuel QUALITY. Any water or grit contamination is deadly to even
40-year-old diesel designs, which is why they have so much more effective fuel filters than gasoline engines. They also never have tolerated fuel that solidifies at too high a temperature, lacks lubricity, etc. etc. etc.Gasoline engines on the other hand, especially carbureted ones, can swallow a fair amount of both water and grit contamination (provided the grit is fine enough not to plug a carb passage), and can take a lot of adulterants like alcohol and other oxygenates in their fuel because its not required to be a lubricant to the same degree diesel fuel is in a diesel engine. As gasoline engine fuel systems have gotten more advanced with more and more precise fuel injector spray patterns, the differences have gotten less and less. But even still, gasoline fuel injectors and especially fuel PUMPS don't have anything like the precision clearances of old-school diesel fuel injectors and pumps, let alone the newest common-rail types.
Sounds great. I missed your original post. When/what time was that?
My ISP recenly moved to a different news server and I haven't come to a conclusion about the results yet. Previously I would not see quite a few of my own posts. Now this has happened a couple of times.
Thus, if I don't see my own posts I may not be seeing others'. Or I just need to get with making an appoinment with my optician.
DAS
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
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