You are all going to slate me for it, but I quite like this.

I'm no authority, I've just decided that a diesel Vectra estate is 'a good idea' for what we need from a car...

Would probably count as an HGV then.

Oh... it's not April the 1st. :-S

Buy it - it sounds like it'll fit right in with the rest of the area.

Seriously, that is one s**te idea, even by your sometimes questionable standards - it's not even as if you have a herd of kids you need to cart around, is it?

Like Douglas has said, it'll be slow, a c*nt to work on and expensive to fix (just like most other Jap stuff).

If you want to stay Jap, why not look at something like a Primula GT - well specced (for a repwagon), pretty bulletproof and should be good on fuel when you're not ragging it, but entertaining when you are (I believe the series one eGT model is the better one for the latter).

Either that or cut out the embarrassment that is that Estima and just buy a non-descript euro diesel, and sit there polluting the environment in relative anomity... because without being rude, one of the main things you've cited in the Lexus's favour is how nice it is to drive - that thing will be a horrid, slow pile of shit to live with.

-- JackH

Kid stuff, you want the daddy:-

Transverse was the trick for the Toledo.

You won't get an old vertical OHV in there easily either. It's short and there's a fair slope to the front half of it. Anything other than a slant (boxer?!) is going to mean a bulge.

Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate Iridium, managed to produce the following words of wisdom

If I was in Dans position, I'd get rid of the V and replace it with something bigger, faster and RWD / 4WD. The Clio is all good in the "Ooooh, a fat Renault" stakes, and it does look like a giggle, but I can pretty much guarantee that a 206 GTi 180 would take the piss out of it down most twisties, just because the V is too wide and too short wheelbase for comfort on a fast drive.

I'd pick an Escort Cosworth / Impreza Turbo or 911 over the fat Clio every time

Actually, it's no wider (mirror to mirror...) than any other Clio hehe!

Uninsurable for me. And the Escort, well, it's an Escort heh :-)

Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate Iridium, managed to produce the following words of wisdom

That's cheating...

Uninsurable? Yet you can insure the Clio?

As for the Escort being an Escort - it ain't, it's more Sierra :-p

Weird no? Clio is group 20 as well. Insurance, just under £900. Impreza STi insurance, also Grp 20 - insurance £2400 :-) Honda S2000, Insurance, £1500. VX220 Turbo - Insurance £800. VX220 Non-Turbo - insurance £790.

Awesome :D

Pretty much as expected - a hot chav wagon costs loads to insure, but a hot car that appeals to an older and more classy generation is cheaper to insure. Mostly because people who spend money on a VX or a Clio will have it as a 2nd or 3rd car.

Your Celsior would make a great tow car. Grunty engine - check Auto - check Relatively high kerbside weight - check.

And it's not a F£$% 4x4

I don't think it's got anything to do with the Escort being a "chav wagon" any more than the Clio. The Clio is just a newer generation scallymotor.

The 2nd / 3rd car thing could well be the answer, Imprezas / Cosworths have

4/5 seats and a boot so they're useable day to day, unlike Dans Clio which only has luggage capacity if it'll fit in the doorbins and glovebox.

Scallies in Liverpool seem to all drive V6 Golfs, Range Rover Sports or Porsche Cayenne Turbos. I've not seen an Escort Cosworth around for possibly

18 months. Lots of Imprezas, but they're all driven by blokes my age.

Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate Iridium, managed to produce the following words of wisdom

206 has the least comfy driving position of almost everything I've ever driven - excluding the Ford Cougar.

Sheesh. Just no helping you, is there?

Whilst I see your point, £900 for insurance may well be uninsurable for many people! £2,400 is silly money. :)

You can't take it with you when you go of course. Enjoy now?

The Impreza has too much of a bad boy image, usually the more seats and doors, the relatively cheaper it is to insure.

How about the Legacy twin turbo? Okay, there are reputed to be problems with the switchover from small turbo to big turbo... but I'll wager it's stacks cheaper to insure.

At risk of citing you should drive what I drive because it's the best, something Swedish with a turbo will be front wheel drive and silly quick when it finally grips - think, 9-3 Viggen, 9-5 Aero, type thing.

Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate DervMan, managed to produce the following words of wisdom

Lotus Sunbeam, that's the answer...

RWD, 4 seats, mental noise, still bloody quick and reasonably sensible to insure (if he can get a classic policy).

Rust like f*ck, dodgy Lotus engine reliability and cheapo nasty French interior.

Dan, I think we've found your next motor...

Yea I hear this a lot - but it worked for me heh, no matter how long I sat there.

Not really :D If I enjoyed driving it with 110bhp it stands to reason, I'd enjoy it with 180bhp.

Not always though. Sometimes having too much power unbalances the machine. Okay, it's quicker in a straight line, much quicker - but occasionally the go faster version just isn't.

Think: mark four Golf.

Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate DervMan, managed to produce the following words of wisdom

that's the car of choice for saleschavs though.... ;-)