134a Refrigerant

It should be in your inbox now, as a .tiff inside a .zip. Let me know if you can't open it.... let everyone here know that you received it, and that it appears genuine. __ Steve BS, with no bs .

__ Steve .

Go Lobos! Sul Ross, home of Intercollegiate Rodeo! Thanks, Bill...

I graduated at age 40, btw... in 1998. __ Steve .

Bill... c'mon, it was funny! Are you denying that you're an extreme right-wing zealot? Should we have a straw poll among regular readers here? I'd imagine that denying the ozone hole problem would put you right up there with the biggies... after all, nobody in any branch of our government makes *that* claim! And look who's in charge! __ Steve .

OK... straw poll... Bill= informative, appreciated, and energetic, but for sure right wing zealot. Steve= doing an OK job of holding down the left-wing (not that there is one) fort: providing links, argueing nicely, calling spades spades.

Advantage: Steve. The right is drunk with power right now and spouting nonsensical lines fed to them by Rush et al. Pretty lame. The left is cowering and shell-shocked and stunned that the SOB got re-elected but is starting to prove that they are demonstratably correct on issues of the enviroment and Iraq, not that reality seems to matter to conservatives. Nonetheless, the truth is the truth.

The left has no balls. I hope we/they grow some soon and start calling it as it really is. Bring on the revolution. Too bad the left is so passive, unarmed, and gutless. The right has a swirling, ever-changing lack of a true philosophy, indicative of a lack of moral compass, despite their hypocritical assertations to the contrary, and seems intent on leading us to a Christian apocolypse. Right-wing evangelical Christianity is nothing less than cult behavior and should be mocked as such by anyone with a brain.

That's what I think.

Carry on with your little flame war.

-jeff ('97 TJ, 4.0L, 5spd, 4.11's, True-Traks front and rear, 31" MTR's, Warn 8000, Oly rock bumpers)

in article 2N9qe.2331$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com, Stephen Cowell at snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net wrote on 6/9/05 10:44 PM:

I thought Bill pointed out that the poles were always shifting :-)

indicative of a lack of moral compass

horseshit. your beliefs are unproven.

nate is abiding by the LAW and nothing more.

im a service tech, that is just one of many multi million dollar rack systems that i am solely responsible for.

.....fine. my statement is that refrigerants cannot make it to the stratosphere because they are heavier than air therefore they fall. when attempting to detect a refrigerant leak using an electronic leak detector you run your probe BENEATH where you suspect the leak. why? because the refrigerant FALLS!

from

near the bottom under electronic leak detectors:"Refrigerant has a higher specific volume than air, therefore refrigerants will fall when exposed to atmospheric pressures. This means leak detecting on the bottom sides of the piping or components will be more effective in detecting a leak and will save you time." from (operating manual of the electronic leak detector that i personally use)"Be aware that refrigerants are invariably heavier than air and will tend to fall from or collect below actual leak points/sources. Searching below areas of potential leaks is invariably the most effective and reliable way of finding such."

now stephen, tell me again all about how the hvac industry agrees with you? tell me again how refrigerants rise above the air.

of course, we already know you simply cannot admit to it.

i dont need to. youve done that one all on your own.

thats NOT what i said. get it right.

indeed.

and what price was that? what would have been an "acceptable" price?

what typical seminar liberal bullshit! bush never "lied" to the american people.

1) WMD's have not been found but we know they exist. going into the whole iraq issue your boy kerry acknowledged them. your boy clinton acknowledged them just before he bombed iraq in '98. 2) even if they no longer existed there is a great difference in being wrong about something and in lying about it. bush acted on the best intelligence he was given and right or wrong, that doesnt make him a liar.

and what crimes were those? BE SPECIFIC.

lol what pitiful (and most ironic!) horse shit. :-)

i know you liberal celebrate diversity and all that crap but ill thank you in advance to get off the topic of my ass. :-)

How the hell would you know?

I'll just bet you abide by the law.. when someone's looking, anyway.

Oh, are you the only person on site? Not that it matters... one viewing of that film has convinced me that I wouldn't be able to stand your job for lots more than you're making... asphalt plants were a lot more fun than that. I have a creative job now... I make about half what you make, and I love it. Wouldn't trade places for the world.

You don't get it, and I'm not going to waste much more breath trying to make you=20 get it... after this post, it's ridicule, buddy.

refrigerants=20

For you, your technical training manuals are the Bible, and carry incontrovertible information that cannot be wrong. You imagine that your special status as an HVAC tech gives you an insight that countless scientists and engineers don't have. Think about that one... *engineers*, Nate, the ones that design and build the systems you are only qualified to leak-check. They use science... you are like the altar-boy, whereas the *engineer* is the Priest. Whatever the Priest tells you, you must do... because you don't posess the Higher Knowlege. Engineers write the dumbed-down tomes you refer to when repairing your systems... rest assured that they understand partial pressures, and probabilities of distribution, much better than you do. Don't you see what an idiot you look like, saying that Freon can't be in the upper atmosphere at all, since it's heavier than air? Hell, Nate, when it's released, it becomes *part* of air... air is a mixture of gasses, some of which are heavy, and some of which are light. You say the reason is 'concentration'... if all the argon fell out of the air right now, we'd die! We'd be in a layer of argon=20 %1 as high as the (normalized) atmosphere! When you climb a mountain, why don't you reach the oxygen layer, then the nitrogen layer, then the helium layer? 'Concentration'!! you say. This implies mixing, does it not? All these gasses... differing weights,

*mixed* up? Well, I can assure you that Freon *mixes* just like all the others. =20 __ Steve gloves off .

Oh, 'integrity' =3D=3D 'sheeple'.

"TRANSLATION --> "i cannot give bush credit for=20 liberating the women of iraq. "

=20

Which is it, Nate? Liberation, or nukedom? Can you see why I think your brain is a mess?

We'll never know... the Space Cowboy rode in from Dodge City and shot the place up. Iraq was not even a priority... unless you're a Bush, or Cheney, or Wolfowitz... the point is, it could have been done much easier and cheaper... there was no hurry, unless you look at an upcoming re-election as a reason. We could have had real multilateral clout, instead of the 'Coalition of the Arm-Twisted'.

Proof for existence? Everyone knows that they *did* exist... Saddam ditched 'em, right before we invaded. Remember when he finally said "OK, inspectors come in"? We invaded anyway... and found nothing. If Bush had stopped there and sent the inspectors back, it would have been brilliant, and I'd be singing his praises now. But no....=20

Indeed, there is a big difference... but Bush was not wrong, he *lied*. Downing Street Memo, Nate... hell, there's probably a

somewhere... oh hell yeah, you bet! Read some:

There might be some wiggle room here for the Bushies. But the true = impact of the DSM--which Chavez and Graham danced around--is that it = shows that Bush was not being straight with the American public. At that = point in time--the summer of 2002- Bush and his advisers were claiming = that Bush had not yet decided to go to war, that he saw it as a last = option, that he would try other alternatives--even diplomacy!--first. = The obvious goal was to persuade the public that he was a reasonable = fellow who would not rush to such a momentous decision. Yet the DSM, as = many readers of this blog already know, discloses that C came back from = Washington with quite a different impression:

"C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible = shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush = wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the = conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were = being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN = route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's = record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after = military action."

That last quoted part, BTW, is a direct quote from the DSM.

Here's some more good stuff:

When Bush signed the congressional resolution authorizing the use of = military force against Iraq on Oct. 16, 2002 - three months after the = Downing Street memorandum - he didn't say that military action was = "inevitable." Instead, the president assured Americans and the world = that he still hoped war could be avoided.

"I have not ordered the use of force. I hope the use of force will not = become necessary," he said at a press conference. "Hopefully this can be = done peacefully. Hopefully we can do this without any military action." = He promised that he had "carefully weighed the human cost of every = option before us" and that if the United States went into battle, it = would be "as a last resort."

Big, big lies. =20

In his book Worse Than Watergate (Little, Brown and Company-NY, 2004), = John W. Dean writes that "the evidence is overwhelming, certainly = sufficient for a prima facie case, that George W. Bush and Richard B. = Cheney have engaged in deceit and deception over going to war in Iraq. = This is an impeachable offense." Id. at 155. Dean focuses, in = particular, on a formal letter and report which the President submitted = to the United States Congress within forty-eight hours after having = launched the invasion of Iraq. In the letter, dated March 18, 2003, the = President makes a formal determination, as required by the Joint = Resolution on Iraq passed by the U.S. Congress in October 2002, that = military action against Iraq was necessary to "protect the national = security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by = Iraq..." Dean states that the report accompanying the letter "is closer = to a blatant fraud than to a fulfillment of the president's = constitutional responsibility to faithfully execute the law." Worse Than = Watergate at 148.=20

If the evidence revealed by the Downing Street Memo is true, then the = President's submission of his March 18, 2003 letter and report to the = United States Congress would violate federal criminal law, including: = the federal anti-conspiracy statute, 18 U.S.C. =A7 371, which makes it a = felony "to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud = the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any = purpose..."; and The False Statements Accountability Act of 1996, 18 = U.S.C. =A7 1001, which makes it a felony to issue knowingly and = willfully false statements to the United States Congress.=20

I think "federal anti-conspiracy statute, 18 U.S.C. =A7 371" and "False Statements Accountability Act of 1996, 18 U.S.C. =A7 1001" get's pretty specific, don't you think? Chew on that, Bushie...

Is that the same smiley I told you to cram? =20

*You're* the one talking out of it... __ Steve .

because your own links are nothing more than "could be's".

personal attacks give you no credibility.

TRANSLATION --> "i have no real response for the links you provided".

hey einstein, who do you think WROTE THE MANUALS that im quoting? :-) those same engineers that you present as being omnipotent wrote the very manuals that CLEARLY show that refrigerants FALL due to their weight.

lol....personal insults (particularly ones based in ignorance) give you NO credibility. :-) fact is, you have no idea what im qualified to do, or what level of OEM training i have.

the same engineer that wrote the manuals supporting my statements. :-)

....and yet they wrote the manuals supporting my statements. :-)

and a mixed gas becomes even heavier than it was before.

.....like shooting fish in a barrel with a shotgun. :-)

which is what you tell yourself to justify having none.

its both. i am a libertarian politically but im also a parent and put the welfare of my children ahead of all else. these dirty little bastards are raised to hate americans, taught to kill americans, etc. if they do not wish to coexist in peace there is only one alternative as far as im concerned....natural selection.

TRANSLATION --> "your thinking is beyond my ability to grasp" :-)

what a cop-out! you said the "price was to high". i asked a very reasonable question and you throw some bullshit out which clearly shows you havent even tried to think it through and are simply spouting what youve been taught to say to promote your political agenda. PITIFUL!

dont mess with texas. :-)

yup! he handed them over to someone as evil as he was and i have no doubt that he would have gotten them back (or made more) after the heat was off. look at how many chances he was given over the last decade!

it would have been stupid because it would have done nothing more than start another decade like the last one.

lol.....youre REALLY going to quote something with "proudliberal" in the url as a credible source of information? BUWHAHA!

No they're not...

Having no knowledge of science is helping you... not. =20

Selective reading is a trait we don't share...=20 if you can't read, how can I hope to change that?

Now you're cutting and pasting with no snip notice...

Well, let's go back to a part you snipped:

Engineers write the dumbed-down tomes you refer to when repairing your systems... rest assured that they understand partial pressures, and probabilities of distribution, much better than you do. =20

So I guess that I do know who wrote the manuals, and even took pains to tell you this... and you didn't notice! Cain't reed!

Spoken like a true HVAC altar boy... answer me this... outside, on a windy day, where do you hold the leak check probe? BE SPECIFIC.

It ain't science, I can certify that. Face it... you're just a tech. Engineers, Nate...=20

*Eennnnngiiinnneeeersssss*.... you must bow down before them. You load the gas they specify.... you hone the cylinder they designed. Haven't you ever looked up at the heavens and wondered 'where do all these wonderful systems I maintain come from'? They *damn* sure didnt' come from some unschooled hack tech who won't or doesn't understand the basic scientific principles behind gas theory, or thermodynamics.

As I said... the Higher Knowlege is not for you.

Higher Knowlege, Nate.... not for you.

Yes! The atmosphere, as a whole, gets heavier! I *knew* you could stretch your brain around this complex idea, if I just kept hammering!

You forgot to add 'with wet powder and styrofoam shot, and no trigger finger, and blind'... __ Steve .

like the links i showed you from "engineers" which clearly show refrigerant falls due to its weight. :-)

youve given NO evidence. youve given me nothing beyond "could be's" and you beg us to believe you. your seminar tactics are worthless here.

concentration. look it up sometime.

lol......certainly not you. :-)

i never said a word about iran. im sure bin laden and his network would have certainly been accomodating. sad part is that i fear one day those weapons will surface HERE.

im sure all anti-american socialists do.

you have provided no information. you have provided agenda driven speculation full of "could be's" in hopes that the rest of us will be stupid enough to fall for it.

you asked me for ONE SINGLE link and i gave you two. i can pull up a dozen or more links from "engineers" that will explain to search for refrigerant leaks below the suspected leakage point because refrigerant falls. youve YET to directly respond to those links i provided.