Sad happenings in Lincolnshire

With respect, I think this is heading in a pretty pointless direction, and you should both shut up.

Rich B

In article , Austin Shackles writes

As a teenager you think you're invulnerable. I had a head-on in my early

20s in a lane, which dramatically changed my perception of danger too.

Now, not only do I usually slow up, but the side window goes down (to listen) and I sound the horn on the worst bends - not the sharpest ones, but the ones at which I think oncoming traffic might not stop in time.

Happily I haven't had one since, but some of the oncoming stuff has just stopped in time!

Regards,

Simonm.

In the particular instance I was referring to had the boat been found promptly, then the young man in question may well have been in a hospital rather than the mortuary.

This threads is about personal tragedy and I am merely illustrating that such events are around us all the time.

I personally do not go for the Diana syndrome.

Only, perhaps, for whoever it is to try to commit suicide again at some later date.

I personally have little sympathy for people who tie up services that can be better utilised than looking for or after someone who simply wants to kill themself.

Indeed, but that's the "hang anyone who goes 1MPH over a speed limit" approach to life, it's not sensible to insist that everyone be perfect, a small mistake that's easy to make shouldn't result in death. A road can be inherently unsafe because it's high-risk, e.g. a road with a 500 foot drop inches from the edge is inherently unsafe even though anyone who goes over could be blamed for the incident.

True but pedantically so, not realistic.

Human beings muddle through life being less than perfect at every step, that's the way we are, and we should take that into account. No need to swing wildly to the opposite point of view though, before some foamer-at-the-mouth decides that I'm claiming we should all be wrapped in cotton wool.

Driving the pinz (which is left-hand drive) on narrow roads can be scary, on left-hand bends I have to move right over to the left to take into account that some twerp is going to come the other way at speed, but moving over to the left means that my visibility can go down to less than 10 feet. Needless to say, I don't go fast, especially as I'm right at the front of the truck ;-)

On some local roads you get oafs who walk along the road blindly following the "always face into oncoming traffic" rule and so walk towards me on the left, oblivious to this meaning on left-hand bends they aren't visible until it's almost too late. If anyone on here walks on narrow roads lined with hedges, cross the road so you're always on the outside of the corner so you can be seen!

People don't commit suicide because they're stupid, any more than people who break their legs can't be bothered to sprint for busses. Learn a little more about people who have died in this way, or who have nearly done so, then you might see your above comment as the crenitous babble that it is.

I never said people who commit suicide were stupid.

And as you've suggested I know little of which I speak I'll say the following.

My mum is a diagnosed manic depressive with acute paranoia. Despite many 'cries for help' she's never _quite_ gone far enough to actually kill herself, despite multiple wrist cuts, pill overdoses, traffic accidents, someone is always around to 'save' her. Thus causing a shit-load more pain and suffering for those around that have to pick up the pieces yet again. Despite all the help and assistance we give (as a family and from the NHS) and have given over the last 30-odd years (actually more like her whole 67 years of life really) of her illness, there's absolutely nothing we can do to medicate her if she decides she isn't going to take her pills. When she's manic she's brilliantly gifted, some of her sculptures rival many I've seen in museums, but when she's depressed she is deeply, deeply distressed and desparate ...

So, what I guess I'm saying is I know more than many people about suicide and it's effects, hence why I say if someone wants to kill themselves, just leave them to it.

And yes, We've already had another member of the family die this way.

Grief, for me, is easier to bear when someone's dead. It's a damn sight harder to bear when they keep trying to die but someone 'saves' them only for the cycle to start ad-infinitum ...

So f*ck off with you thinking I'm talking cretinous babble, there are far too many facets of suicide to cover everything. What I said is how I honestly feel, if you don't like it tough, I couldn't give a shit.

I'll say no more on this subject.

I never said you did, you did however voice the opinion that it's a waste of time trying to help people who want to kill themselves, and quote the example of your own mother. You also said this in a subthread started by someone who has recently had a friend die from this.

I've also had a few experiences with suicides (only two who were close friends or relatives though), two who actually did it and three who had damned good tries. Only one of those was in an actual life-isn't-worth-living situation, the others ranged from fairly minor debts to bad family relationships and breaking up with lovers, all very minor temporary issues that can, in the wrong circumstances, kick someone so hard they lose their marbles.

They weren't useless idiots that weren't worth the resources any more than someone who has a bad infection that'll kill them if it's not cured. Of the three who survived, two required minor treatment and were fine afterwards, the third had a history of depression and took more work but only for a few years and is mostly fine now.

Indeed, so blanket statements about suicides not being worth the resources are cretinous babble.

Great. And if you do decide to spout so insensitively on the issue in future, try and pick a better time and place.

It's rather reminisent of the sign that graced a local hill for over

12 months after an accident removed the crash barrier above a steep wooded slope. The sign read "Caution. No crash barriers"

Every time I passed I thought "Crash barrier or not I'm stoping on the tarmac, Thank you.." I always thought the aim was to stop on the black solid bits between the barriers, hedges, ditches and othe rrandom bit's of the surrounding scenery ;)

We've had a local road resurfaced, plonked right on a corner so you have to swerve around it is a sign saying "caution, no road markings".. I didn't see it there last time I was down that road actually, probably flattened by a truck.

On or around Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:40:51 +0100, Ian Rawlings enlightened us thusly:

I'd not say that makes it unsafe, you see. The consequences of going off the edge are higher, but then, there's no need to do that, unless someone is doing things wrong. It might not be the one going off the edge.

not so. OK, I grant the possibility of a "dangerous" road, something like a corner where it changes from flat to about 20 degrees adverse camber half-way round and without warning. But no normal road is like that.

Even such an extreme example shouldn't necessarily cause a guaranteed crash, but combined with a moment's inattention or a slightly incautious approach speed, which wouldn't normally be a problem.

indeed. in the case in point, it depends on the circumstances, which from the reports I've seen are unclear to say the least. From what I've read, there are a few possibilities, in order:

1) The van towing canoes was coming in the opposite direction too fast/too wide and the landy was being cautious, but had to take emergency avoiding action, and went off the road as a result. In this case, most or all the blame is with the van driver. 2) As 1, but the LR driver was also too fast, in which case he has part of the blame. 3) The van was sensible and the LR not; in which case, more of the blame is with the LR chap.

Then there are another set of possibilities about the LR having overtaken the van, but from the description of the road I think that unlikely.

Just read this tragic thread and having recognised the 110 and checked the site it looks like it may be the owner at

(site has been taken down out of respect to the family), a keen and respected 110 owner.

My thoughts go out to the family.

Yes it is the owner of that website I'm afraid.

Fair enough - I just had the feeling that a pissing contest was about to develop, and this thread would not be the place for that.

Fair enough concern Rich. My comment was only made because it was current news here at the time.

On or around Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:43:29 +0100, "Neil Brownlee" enlightened us thusly:

That clears up the questions about the incident. It's a pity that the media reports of these things tend to be so vague and more to the point not followed up with better facts.

Gist is, then, as I see it - single track road and a combined closing speed that precluded just stopping, leading to an evasive manoeuvre that went tragically wrong, and such as it's worth the victims of this have my support and sympathy.

Even if he was going a touch fast for the road (and don't we all, at times? I know I do) the consequences are out of all proportion to the probably-minor error of judgment. Ditto for the van driver.

Probably the best option in such circs is to reduce the speeds to minimum (by standing on the anchors) and accept a head-on, especially if you know everyone's belted in - I doubt the speeds were such as would cause a seriously damaging shunt - IME, closing speeds below 40 cause impressive damage especially to modern collapsible cars but generally only minor injuries if any.

But very few people won't try to dodge if they think there's even a small chance of it working. I know one chap who, in a lorry and faced with an oncoming twit in a car too fast and to wide, demolished a bridge and wrote off the lorry in the effort to avoid said twit, who (the twit) drove off unscathed.

I hope the driver of the van is aware of what he's contributed to causing, and if he's not completely insensitive, that's probably punishment enough - although if there are the right witnesses he may well be punished by the law also. I've managed so far not to have anyone's death on my conscience, and I hope I never have to.

On or around Tue, 18 Sep 2007 19:52:01 +0200, Matt M enlightened us thusly:

Looking at it, looks like it rolled. The bodywork is at some unscheduled angles.

On or around Wed, 19 Sep 2007 17:02:11 +0100, MarkVarley - MVP enlightened us thusly:

that's not quite true. They stand up amazingly well to being rolled, even without any additional cages, there have been well publicised cases before.

yeah, it is - landing in water so deep that you risk drowning is pretty rare compared with plain ordinary collisions which can cause serious injury to unrestrained kids, so you have to play the averages.

One thing I will say: I don't approve of driving with locked doors or with child-locks on doors. If they're strapped in, they can't come to much harm from opening the doors and if you jump on them hard the first time they do they should soon learn that it attracts disapproval. The last thing you want in any crash, and especially vital if you do land in deep water, is for ANY of the doors to have less chance of opening. When carrying children in the bus, I always have all the doors unlocked and when using cars I never have childlocks applied. The thought of someone dying because the one available non-bent door can't be opened has always preyed on me.

MTAAW, the tear, that is.