Toyota Tundra: First Impression

Get real. Ford sells more full size truck in a month or so than Toyota can produce in a year. Toyota is still trying to get rid of their 2006 model trucks

mike

If you are directing your comment to me, I have owned over a dozen Toyotas and Lexus' If Toyota were as good as some of you seem to thing why is not everybody buying Toyotas? ;)

If they're not that great why did you keep buying them?

Dante

Our Toyotas and Volvos proved to be tougher than the teens. When that Mustang dies, perhaps you should find him a nice Corolla or 240.

I don't know about why - or whether - he hates Toyotas but, whoever he is, he surely does think he's Awfully Important.

Are we looking at "mike hunt?"

Toyota's making lots of money; they are heavily roboticized and automated and they do not lack for capital. Their people are good. They get top engineers from the best Japanese universities (and American, now, too). If they built the frame with bolted cross-members instead of using their robotic welders then I think that rather than blindly criticizing it, I'd be asking myself why they did that and what the advantage is.

I owned one once, a Cressida. By far the worst car I ever owned. My SO has a brand new RAV4. It is not a bad car, but it cost at least $4,000 more than a similarly equipped Escape. I've driven both and there is no way the RAV4 is worth $4k more. And before you tell me how much more reliable the RAV4 will be, my younger Sister has a 6 year old Escape. Total repairs have amounted to $13 (I replaced a bad cruise control cable). I can't see where a $13 repair would justify spending $4k.

The brain dead part is that some people just seem to be Toyota drones. I know one family that will buy nothing else. They haven't owned anything else in 25 years. If I suggest they ought to at least look at something else, they act like I don't get it. When I ask why they don't consider a domestic car, they make some vague reference to a 1976 Chevrolet they owned and how it was horrible. They just bought a new Prius. Does that give you a clue about how concerned they are about wisely spending money? Interestingly, the only thing they had to say about the Prius was how much smaller it seemed than the Camry it replaced. Hmmmmm. Another friend of mine who is a big fan of Hondas goes on and on about the horrible third hand Pontiac he once owned. The car was 12 years old with 150,000 miles on it when he got it. Yet he acts like it should have been as good as a new Accord. My older Sister owned an Accord of similar vintage to the Pontiac. After 6 years and

85,000 it was a pretty horrible car itself. Or then there is the guy at work that tell me how much quieter his Honda Pilot is than his old F150. What did he expect? He bought a truck and was unhappy it wasn't a car. Duh....

At least I consider multiple brands when I go out to buy something. Heck I test drove three Toyota trucks before I finally gave up on getting a reasonable deal. I owned a Nissan in the past and it was OK' CR gave the Frontier a "recommended" rating, so I figured it wouldn't be much different in terms of reliability than the much higher priced Tacoma. My SO's father has a Tacoma similar to my Nissan. So far we have similar experiences, but I probably stress mind a little more than he does (at least judging by the amount of mud caked on mine). He's had his back to the dealer twice for problems, mine has been back three times. The 1992 F150 I got rid of, wasn't back for repairs for the first 12 years I owned it.

Ed

[snip]

I know people like that. If they're perfectly satisfied with their experience and the value, why should they switch?

They should switch to satisfy *you*?

[snip]

Teenagers are not that good as drivers. The Mustang can go too fast for a teenager. If you son gets killed or kills someone else or there is a serious injury, I wonder how cheap it will turn out.

Jeff

And what is a US corporation? You mean like Gibbons Toyota, Inc., of Dickson City? The companies that manufacture the actual cars in the US are US corportations. They are wholly owned by Toyota and Honda, however.

How about a Mazda? Mazda is partly own by Ford, and sells all the Mazdas to US dealerships.

And if you say no to Mazda, what about Volvo and Saab? They are owned by Ford and GM?

Can you please give me some evidence that Toyota or Honda use significantly more Japanese parts when they build a car in the US than US auto makers? (If you cite VINs, please provide real evidence that the VIN has anything to do with content.)

If I am not mistaken, the Japanese and many US companies beleive that you should also invest in the areas where you sell your products. Perhaps that is why Toyota has invested nearly $30 billion and buys over $25 billion worth parts and services in the US every year.

I, on the other hand, don't beleive that I should subsidize an inefficient operation or feel that I am any more responsible for the welfarre of a GM employee or retiree than I am of one from United Airlines.

Jeff

What does WBMA stand for?

So you're saying that it doesn't take time to build a brand. Toyota sold nearly 10,000 Tundras in the first month. That, my friend, is pretty darn good in a market dominated by Ford and GM. I am sure Ford will continue to enjoy ever increasing F-series sales. Oopsie, they fell 12%.

I see more of your usual diversionary tactics when you can't support your claims.

I guess you own stock in Ford, right?

Jeff

It is going to be a long time before Toyota will have the capacity to build as many trucks as Ford. Toyota has experienced many growing pains in the last few years. They have many cultural differences to overcome and want to make sure that they don't repeat the quality issues that lead to several recalls.

Toyota will continue to grow it truck sales the same way it did it car sales: slowly and carefully. It will see what the consumer wants and strive to meet these demands.

jeff

I disagree. This means that Toyotas are percieved to be better than the others. It doesn't mean that they are better. Hey, people will buy a Corolla over a GM that is nearly identical build on the same assembly line. Go figure.

Jeff

He claims to be a retired engineer from Ford.

I think so. He claims that he has lots of stock in Ford.

Jeff

And there are people who will only buy Ford or only GM or only Chyrsler (perhaps that will soon be only Ford or GM). This is particularly true with trucks. Today, I think the Dodge Ram and Dodge Dakota have the coolest looks, but I think I would go for a Honda Ridgeline. But I would consider the offerings from Toyota, Dodge, Ford, GM, Nissan, Honda and Subaru, depending on my needs. However, I am more like to buy a Tonka truck than pickup in the near future.

The bottom line is that most cars are pretty good quality. If you buy from just about any of the brands, you will have most likely have a car or truck that will last several years and go at least 100,000 mi.

Jeff

I listened to the intro more carefully. He says he's "Rick Titus" and this seems to be him:

He also has a Wiki entry which, strangely, is EXACTLY the same text. He's also done promo videos for Ford (although this isn't played up in forums where he's trying to appear neutral).

I did get a laugh out of the way he was careful to don a "disguise" in his video, because he sure didn't need one to go unnoticed.

Obscurity, your name is "Rick Titus."

Real race cars or mostly carbureted SLOCARs?

But that doesn't explain why the Camry is higher priced than the Chevy Impala or Malibu, which it outsells.

There was a time when the Japanese couldn't sell cars here unless they priced them for less than American cars, but starting in the 1990s the Japanese were able to sell their cars at a premium. What changed to allow that? I don't think it was due to the American cars becoming better than the Japanese ones.

Thanks to Japanese cars that outlasted the American cars (cars like the Pacer and K-car really helped here), the Japanese cars got a reputation for quality. However, I think the quality of American and Japanese cars are of similar quality. Of course a lot of Japanse cars are built in the US and a lot of American cars aren't.

Jeff

The quality may be similar over the short term (say, 3 years, 50,000 miles). But over the long term (say, 5+ years, 100,000+ miles), Toyotas have still proven to be more reliable. That is a statistical fact.