Toyota Tundra: First Impression

How many old Ford Escorts do you see these days?

....ones that did not burn...that is.....

I was asking another poster to back his claim.

Anecdote. It may be that Toyotas and Honda last longer. But we don't have adequate evidence here, either way.

Jeff

I could buy JDPowers' raw data, I suppose, but it would probably be cheaper to buy a second car, so it's really pointless to do so. No, I just check their readily available summary reports, which are good enough for my purposes and which tend to support the notion that Toyotas are more reliable than GM, Ford and DCX.

CR actually does disclose a great deal about how they evaluate things. I don't have their raw data and I haven't comprehensively surveyed all their report, either, but I do read their reports whenever I'm looking for a used car and Toyota (and Honda) dominate the categories I've been interested in. And their summaries bear this out, too. See the post title "Big 3 Fans shouldn't blame the messenger" for a link to a DetNews articl.

If you don't think these sources are adequate for the purpose, then I guess you could go door-to-door around the country and ask people how their cars are working out (ask specific, quantifiable questions, too). It's probably more cost-effective to buy two bad cars than do a big enough survey to determine reliability on your own just once.

And, it's anectdotal, but I like the customer reviews on Edmunds. And I see that they generally align well with the published reports of JDP and CR and that old Toyotas tend to get good reviews from happy people where the owners of old Ford Focuses (Foci?) and Chevy Malibus (Malibi would be funnier) tend to say they're unhappy.

I suppose all three of these sources are a conspiracy to destroy Detroit?

Now, you could say that all three of those sources are some sort of consp

True. But I prefer to play games with loaded dice only when I know how the dice are loaded.

If I start to see evidence that GM, Ford and DCX cars are offering, overall, long-term reliability similar to Toyota, I'd see that as an opportunity to buy into a GM, Ford or DCX before the rest of the market figures it out, because perceptino of poor reliability is one of the things holding their prices down. At their current pricing, with good reliability, they'd be a good value. I'm not blind to the possibilities, I'm just not going to accept that they're equal or better without some evidence.

I like to think of myself as being in the Toytoa control group... but that's probably not accurate use of statistical terminology. I have a book here on that but, frankly, I don't think it's worth my time doing a lookup to make you happy.

There is only one thing that I can think of that will elicit this little video clip. Fear!

The guy who was talking obviously is biased toward Ford. Funny that the beginning of the video clip said for Ford Internal use only... Propaganda may be...

Fact remains, that the big 3.. my bad, the big 2 are worried about this truck more than you can imagine. You have a true full size truck from Toyota where the "Domestics" used to dominate and it's their bread and butter. One can guess that better part of the new Tundra customers are going to come from Ford and GM. It's natural for the two to be cautious and keep a close eye on the sales figures. I have had the pleasure of driving Ford, GM and the Toyota back to back in a close course. I can tell you that the Tundra beat the Ford and GM with hands down. Tundra can get from 0-60-0 before the Ford get to 60 mph. Think about that for a minute. If you add a load behind the truck the margin gets even greater. I like the fact that the guy in the video compare the brakes and say that it's time that Toyota caught up to Ford. Fact is Ford doesn't offer the big brakes like the Tundra have, and the Tundra comes standard with 4 wheel disk brakes. What about traction control and stability control, both of which are standard in the Tundra? You cant get that from Ford for at least 2 more years. We can't even begin to get into workmanship and quality. Let's face it; we all know Toyota quality is better than Ford and GM, PERIOD. I have owned many Fords and GMs. I still own a 1970 Camaro that I love. But when it comes to how a car is put together and quality of workmanship and over all reliability, I found Toyotas to be far superior to Ford and GM. In all fairness, the domestic makes have made some progress toward quality and they are building better and better products. At the same time Toyota is not exactly standing still. You got to love competition. Just imagine the quality of domestic makes today if Toyota wasn't there to compete with them.

No. I think they are fairly accurate. But, IMHO, they don't make it a "statistical fact." That was my point.

And I generally agree that most Toyotae and Hondae are good cars. I think Fords and GMs are pretty good cars, too. I don't know of evidence that proves that one brand is better than the other in the long run.

Jeff

My father-in-law's Escort caught fire and he ended up with some whopping bill to fix it. He argued with Ford about who should be paying for it but, in the end, they stuck him with the bill and he drove off with a big bulls-eye on the hood from the fire damage underneath.

A year or so later, he took it in to the Ford dealer for some sort of service and the service guy says, "Say, that fire-damaged hood looks terrible, why don't you get it fixed and painted?"

And may father-in-law said, "I keep it like this so that everyone who sees it will know that Fords are crap." That was his last Ford ever.

By the way, Scott, he was of your political stripe. But he was smarter and knew the difference between "pardon" and "commutation."

Mine burned also, but I was lucky enough to get it out fast enough to not have a target on the hood.

a commutation of sentence is a pardon.

Especially the way Clintoon did it.....

The pardoned people have all their rights restored. A commutation does not do that.

Like I said Clintoon pardoned terrorists.

Out of curiosity I just checked the on line inventory of the Ford dealer nearest my home (Capital Ford one of the largest in the southeast). They had

10 '06 F250, 1 '06 Fusion, 1 '06 F150, 1 '06 Five Hundred, 4 '06 E150 Vans, 9 '06 Rangers, 2 '06 Explorers, and 1 '06 Crown Victoria. No '06 Foci, Freestyles, Escapes, Expeditions, F350's (or above), or Mustangs. (29 total '06 vehicles).

For comparison I checked the on-line inventory of a large Toyota dealer in Virginia- Priority Toyota. They have 15 '06 Scion xAs, 9 '06 Scion xBs, 1 '06 Land Cruiser, and 27 '06 Tacomas listed in their on-line inventory (52 total '06 vehicles). I had to pick a dealer in Virginia because it is impossible to check the local inventory of individual dealers in the Southeast Region. All they show you is a list of vehicles available in the Southeast. I wasn't surprised by the large number of Tacoma setting on the lot - they are sooooo over priced.

Is there really much difference there? Capital Ford sells a lot more cars in a year than Priority Toyota. I suspect stale cars left on the lot is more a product of the area and the skill of the dealer management than an indication of the relative sales success of the companies.

Ed

Ford is not the only one with truck sales decreasing. So far for 2007, Toyota Tundra sales are down 21% compared to the same period in 2006

The sales reports I have seen indicated that Tundra sales were down in both January 2007 and February 2007 compared to 2006 (6,321 in Jan 2007 vs 9,459 in Jan 2006; 9,669 in Feb 2007 vs 10,566 in Feb 2006 - a 21% decrease for

2007 compared to 2006).

And since Toyota is planning to sell 250,000 Tundras a year, 10,000 in a month seems really low.

Ed

Domestic Content by Brand (2005 -- sales weighted)

BMW 10% Chrysler (domestic brands) 78% Ford (domestic brands) 78% GM (domestic brands) 74% Honda/Acura 59% Hyundai/Kia 3% Isuzu 17% Mitsubishi 36% Nissan/Infiniti 46% Subaru 26% Toyota/Lexus 47% Volkswagen/Audi 4%

What car can't go "too fast?" Would the world be safer if he was driving a Excursion? Or maybe I should stick him in a Scion tC - oh wait, those go fast, are small, and have one of the worst injury loss ratings of any car sold in the US.

Ed

Of course not. But I hate to see people screw themselves.

Ed

That may reflect sales of the 2006 models, though.

I would like the see the press release myself. However, the link isn't working.

Anyway, we will see in the coming months.

Jeff

Can't prove it by me. My one granddaughter still has a loaded V6 2000 Mystic, that I bought new in 1999 for $16,500, as a graduation gift. She loves it, won't give it up. It currently has over 200K trouble free miles on the clock ;)

mike

You must live near Toyota and Honda dealerships ;)

mike

What it is trouble free? I have had to replace my rear springs and struts, a pair of catalytic converters, all four rotors, a couple of calipers, two front wheel bearings and a CV joint. I paid about $2500 maintaince in

138,000 mi. The car runs great.

I would say that the car has been pretty reliable.

Jeff

WOW, were the interior and paint THAT bad when it was new? LOL

mike

That Toyota TV ad is a phony. ANYTHING the Tundra does in that TV with a

10,000 load, can be done by an F150 or the Silverado with a 10,500 LB load and they cost thousands less. The largest load a Ford truck can haul is 24,500 LBs. When they say trucks 'use to have brakes and ring gears like this,' they are referring to the previous Tundra, not current competitors trucks. The F150 and the Silverado, as well as the RAM, have had those for years. That is why Ford sold 35% of the light trucks in 2006 and Chevy sold 30%. Toyotas sold a measly 5% in comparison.LOL

mike

Some owners do a better of job of preventive maintenance than others.

mike