Pink Kate

A 22 caliber charge is used to put anchors in concrete. I guess it would put a hole in a grizzly's skull. That, of course assumes that you press the barrel firmly into the solid surface that you wish to penetrate, and hold it there steadily while squeezing the trigger. As others have pointed out, the grizzly may make this difficult.

Thanks for all the tips, everybody. If I ever decide to visit grizzly country, I will now know how to do my shopping first. ;^)

Earle

In bear country, a heavily-loaded .44 cal. pistol might be useful for holding off the attack long enough to get to your rifle.

"Nathan W. Collier" wrote

AFAIK no commercial handgun provides enough energy to *reliably* stop a man let alone a griz. The published one-shot-stop figures define "stop" as "didn't go more than XX feet" - the man may have sat down for 5 minutes and bled out but it'd still be a "one-shot-stop". The only way to *reliably* stop a large animal with a pistol is to punch holes deep enough to bleed him out - lower blood pressure enough that he collapses. I don't think calibers optimized to stop people (40S&W, 10mm, 45ACP) will do that on a bigger animal like a bear.

So many years ago that the 44 Mag didn't exist yet, my uncle and two friends were fishing in Utah when charged by a grizzly. They fired what they had - a

9mm, a .45 and a 357 - then ran. The bear collapsed before doing serious damage. When dressing it out they found that only the 357 slugs had penetrated into the bear's vitals - the FMJ 9mm and 45 slugs were all found just below the skin and had prolly made the bear real mad.

There's a gunsmith (Bowen?) in Wyoming who makes some fine "bear" pistols. I tried some 45 Long Colt rounds loaded up to his spec's in a Ruger a few years ago. Not sure who they'd hurt worse, you or the bear, and I only fired 6 cuz the painful recoil was beginning to make me flinch. Still, if I regularly went into Grizz country without a rifle thats what I'd carry.

Solids are available in 44 Mag that should provide adequate penetration with lots of "slap" - metal piercing rounds are not needed and are illegal (for handguns) in some states.

If you carry the right ammunition, most calibers will mushroom. Thought the .45 is slower than the .357 thus giving it better knock down power the .357 will do serious damage if you use the right ammo. So will a .38, which is my "purse" pistol though damned if I still would want to shoot a bear with a handgun.

I have specific ammo that I 'carry' and for the range I use a fully jacketed round. The carry ammo is designed to expand on impact and rip as it goes through leaving a small entry wound and if it exits, a sizeable exit wound. It is pretty bucksy as compared to the fully jacketed that I use on the range.

Kate

: > I've been shot with a .38 before... Didn't even feel it... I suspect that I : > would have definitely known if it had been a .45 or a .357...

"Nathan W. Collier" wrote : you better hope he falls in the first 50.....there wont be time to reload. ::-)

If there is, do you load with retention ? ;¬D Kate

Don't forget the little bells!

Seahag

You don't want bullets that mushroom when shooting big,tough skinned dangerous game. You want penetration... all you can get. Ideally, a round that will go clean through the beast. You're better off with FMJ in handgun calibers. A stoked up .44 mag would do it *if* you were competent (read: calm) enough to place your shot. Spray and pray ain't going to get it done. .454 Causull would be a better choice if you could handle it.

JD said, it might buy you time to unsling your long gun.

unless you have one that will both mushroom and penetrate adequately.

i disagree completely. you arent depositing energy if you blow right through.

soft point gives you penetration and expansion.

there are always exceptions because there are infinite variables, but i disgree completely with this thinking. exceptions are rare, but not enough to take away the expectation of reasonable stopping reliability with a well placed shot of adequate caliber.

personally i know of at least 8 different "one shot stop" studies, and all 8 had different criteria as well as different results. im sure there are many more similar studies, and im betting all of them reached different results.

the trouble with that is that you typically dont have time to bleed them out. at 35mph a grizzly bear can cross 100 yards in just a couple seconds and if you hope to stop him you need to upset his vitals.

agreed......but you do the best you can with what you have. a handgun should _never_ be your primary defense against a bear, but if its all youve got then make the most of it by carrying big, hot bullets. 10mm is nearly equal to a .41 magnum, and having 16 rounds of it in an automatic (glock 20) would stop a grizzly if you have enough time (and skill) to hit it many times. the .45 super is equal to the .44 magnum and would also stop a grizzly with multiple well placed shots.

i completely disagree with ball ammunition. when i travel in bear country i typically carry a winchester defender with 3" 00 buckshot as my primary bear defense weapon. my secondary weapon is a 629 classic loaded with 240 grain soft points. the soft point doesnt expand as much as a hollowpoint, but it still expands while still having awesome penetration. another option is the truncated cone from PMC....but for grizzly bear you dont want a hollow point or ball, you want a soft point.

agreed, but remember to match the ammunition to the weapon. for example, when i carry a 5" 1911 i carry 230 grain hollowpoint +P .45 acp ammunition. when i carry a 4" 1911 though, i drop down to a 200 grain hollowpoint +P .45 acp bullet because the shorter barrel doesnt give the 230 grain bullet enough speed to ensure adequate expansion. the 200 grain in the 4" barrel is similar in speed to the 230 grain in the 5" barrel.

its not that its slower, its that its bigger and heavier.

>

my secondary weapon is a 629 classic loaded with 240 grain

Ahh, the Smith and Wesson stainless .44mag. Brings back memories of the old Sheriffs Dept days when we had to supply our own weapons. I switched over to the Dan Wesson Pistol pack later.

I believe by soft point, you're referring to a semi-jacketed wadcutter.

Later,

Spdloader

Old IPSC Veteran. Police / Deputy Sheriff E.R.T. Sniper1985/1992 U.S. Army 3RD 75th Abn.Ranger Rgt.Sniper Bosnia/Sarajevo 1992/1994

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Spdloader

L.W.(Bill) Hughes III wrote in message=0D=0A...= =0D=0A=0D=0A> Which hole in the vagina do I put my penis in during sex?

The .38 was jacketed round nose... Didn't mushroom at all... Went a few inches into my thigh and didn't even hit the bone... The doc at the clinic just put a small bandage over it and told me that it would work its way through the leg to the back in a few months and I could get it removed at that time -- like lancing a zit... A couple of months later, I was in Navy boot camp and went to sick bay and told them I wanted to get the bullet removed from my leg... They looked at me rather strangely... Apparently, removing bullets from recruits is not a common occurrence for them...

In case you're wondering how I managed to acquire the .38 in my thigh, it was due to making the mistake of stopping at a Jack-in-the-Box in Compton for midnight munchies while driving along the freeway... Apparently, I was the *only * person in SoCal that didn't know not to go into Compton, especially at night...

After I bought my Winchester 1300 "Defender" with the pistol grip quite a few years ago, I took it out for some 'plinking'... In the process, I of course had to try firing it single handed like a pistol... As if just holding it up wasn't bad enough with all the weight of the ammo out towards the end, once I fired it, I quickly realized that this was not a good idea... It tends to destroy your wrist...

A 3" magnum 12-gauge 1-5/8 oz fired at 1280 fps gives you about 2586 ft-lbs... A 9mm *can* give 425 ft-lbs with the right round...

*if* someone could empty 50 rounds into the charging bear beforebecoming his dinner, you have 21,250 ft-lbs to work with... All in all, I'mrather glad that I live in Texas where I don't have to make this choice...