Anti-social vehicle - test case

Wardlaw was writing in August 2001. Clearly he was *not* basing his figures on 2001 stats.

I suspect Wardlaw was referring to the fact that about 45% of cycling in the UK is done by males under the age of 18.

How do you work that out?

Even if this were true as an average, obviously there would be some countries doing better than us, and others doing worse.

Jim.

Reply to
Jim Higgons
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I know plenty of wheelchair users who drive as well, but few of them have the option of using an "unfashionably old" car. My mum was very pleased that the VAT free status of adapted vehicles allowed her to afford a new car - just.

Diabetics have been subject to driving and insurance restrictions in the past. This may have changed, or may depend on type of diabetes. I know one diabetic who has been advised to give up and not even think about driving again, but her insulin-dependent diabetes is poorly controlled for some reason.

Guy

-- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.

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88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University
Reply to
Just zis Guy, you know?

HC simply says "you MUST NOT ride when under the influence of drink or drugs". No mention of being drunk.

Is there any case law which defines this?

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"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." (WilliamPitt, 1783)

Reply to
PeterE

As wheelchair users have been driving cars for many years presumably adapted vehicles filter down through the second-hand market just as standard ones do. I don't know, but I can imagine them being actively advertised through disability support groups.

As long as it is properly controlled, insulin-dependent diabetics are permitted to drive, although, as you say, they may suffer an insurance loading. I know two people well who come into that category, one of whom, although now retired, previously did very high business mileages.

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"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." (WilliamPitt, 1783)

Reply to
PeterE

Yes. But then, it helps if you have an eye for a bargain I suppose :)

I picked up an Escort for 100 quid off Ebay. Thought I'd run it into the ground, but then sold it. Thought the current owner would kill it quickly, nearly 6 months on it's still going! It's broke down three times in total. Once was a blocked fuel pipe, probably caused by me using an old jerry can to top it up. Once was the alternator, the other time was a poor main HT lead. The latter 2 I would expect to be a possible fault on most cars, as I think the alternator was soaked in a heavy storm, and the HT lead also played up during appalling weather. So if you can get that sort of reliability out of something that you don't expect, 500 notes should see you driving away in something even better :)

Ahh, but that's the "rather", as in want, not need, so to speak. And who's to say your 500 quid car won't be comfy? Should be able to pick up a TD Monty for that sort of money, or a reasonable 800.

Well, depending on the disability, there's DLA payments for mobility, as well as the scheme for disabled people. True certain illnesses mean you can't drive, but that's steering away from the point slightly. Out of interest, how does diabetic come into it? I'm aware of epilepsy and other mental problems, but would never have considered diabetes as a problem for driving.

Good on you. I need a car, as in, for reasons I won't go into I cannot use other forms of transport often. And I like playing with cars. And I personally could never conceive running a 7 year old car for 3 grand a year unless it was something rather nice - How do people find themselves spending so much when it's possible to do it on so much less? Unless you used to drive long distances when you had the car, and now don't venture past the shops?

Reply to
Stuffed

Err I think you'll find you are wrong.

Reply to
Steve Firth

But instead of that, you give her a bike to save yourself money?

I suspect a faulty piece of logic there - insist on the car being new and expensive, and then not buy one because it's too expensive. Most people don't buy them new.

Reply to
Questions

Are you just assuming these probabilities?

Country roads regularly and often have things wandering around on them, and quite often it mucks about for ages and ages. Depends where you are, I personally find foxes are the most annoying, because they flee rather than getting off to one side. Fleeing up the road at 15 mph isn't a good escape solution, still, foxes tend to wise up pretty quick and the townies see off the ones that don't, so it's a spring thing on the whole.

You could sit there, as a group of pheasants pass the time of day waiting for the glorious 12th to start, but I would always give them a blast of the horn, move forwards, flash the lights. Even then there's always one that doesn't know what to do. I often wish I wasn't an animal lover, but can't summon the callousness to run down a creature just because it is a tad too stupid to save itself. Not that it makes any real odds, but hey...

Reply to
Questions
[ ... ]

How?

Reply to
JNugent

That made-up statistic is the most ludicrous I have ever seen posted on Usenet.

I was at school 40 years ago.

I assure you that nowhere remotely near 7.5% (let alone 75%) of pupils came to school by bicycle, whether at primary or secondary level. Even 10% would have provided insurmountable problems over bike storage.

I had a bus pass - the bus was always full.

Reply to
JNugent

Indeed.

I doubt that even 50% felt able to afford to buy their children bikes forty years ago.

Reply to
JNugent

We've got uk.rec.cycling in on this, so now is the time to speak up if you want to persuade punters onto bikes. Got to be convincing, mind, case law sounds good to me.

Reply to
Questions

Agreed - how could anyone type that without questioning it?

75% of *all* school pupils, in *all* locations? Pull the other one!

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"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." (WilliamPitt, 1783)

Reply to
PeterE

Presumably you mean Type 1 (used to be known as juvenile onset, cf type 2).

No insurance loading IME.

cheers, clive

Reply to
Clive George

Hypoglycaemia, aka low blood sugar, caused by having too much insulin (or not enough food!).

Affects driving in a similar manner to being drunk (and in extreme cases can cause fits, like epilepsy).

Cyclists will know it as the bonk, ie it's not restricted to diabetics, except you're not exercising while driving so it tends not to happen then if you've got a working pancreas.

Mostly it's an issue for type 1, ie insulin dependent (although type 2s injecting would also be susceptible).

cheers, clive

Reply to
Clive George

pls do.

Reply to
Theo

As regards 'other mental problems', AFAIK people who have been diagnosed as having mental disorders are legally allowed to drive provided they are not taking any medication that would impair their perceptions and reactions on the road.

Reply to
Rachel Schaufeld

You just keep on imagining there and maybe it will end up happening. Disability adaptations tend to be quite specific. I recommend you visit the disability roadshow some time.

And some are not advised to drive at all.

All of which is tangential: the fact remains that there are people for whom driving is not an option, and others for whom running cheap cars is not an option. It is not currently possible for every adult to be a driver.

Guy

-- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.

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88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University
Reply to
Just zis Guy, you know?

Exactly. I bought our last car at six years old with 100k on the clock, ran it for another six years and 60,000 miles, and it never broke down once. I have replaced it with another six-year-old 100k mile car of the same manufacture.

Would you like to do a side-by-side comfort test between a TD Montego and my Volvo V70 2.5T CD (with leather interior, climate control, cruise, auto, CD player, traction control and so on)? I am pretty confident the Volvo would win ;-)

A new car is zero-rated for VAT if it's permanently adapted for a disabled user. Some adaptations can be retro-fitted, but many are doen through Motability or other schemes based on new cars. The adaptations alone can easily cost more than some people pay for a car.

Neither would I, but you know what insurance companies are like, and some diabetics have a higher than ususal incidence of hypo.

It's not the running costs, it's depreciation, finance (every penny I don't spend is knocked off my mortgage), insurance, MoT and servicing, petrol, tyres, the occasional exhaust, that sort of thing. The RAC reckons something over £5,000 per year, so I think £3k for running a tidy little car is not too bad. It was a Civic 1.6 auto with aircon, I sold it to my neighbour who is still very happy with it.

I have rebuilt cars from the ground up. There was no single component of my old Mini which I had not removed and cleaned or replaced (including the springs in the synchro hubs inside the gearbox). These days I have better things to do with my time and in any case prefer a car which I know will start without spending every fourth weekend fettling some minor component.

I am a typical cyclist: above average income. Part of what I buy with that is the leisure of a car which just works. Which I hardly ever drive :-)

Guy

-- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.

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88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University
Reply to
Just zis Guy, you know?

My wife has use of the car: I go to work by train and bike. I have not driven to work regularly for nearly four years, and when driving for business I hire a car.

My wife also rides a bike because when she goes to the office it is quicker to cycle than to drive, not least because of all the people who drive through the middle of Reading every day.

And we ahve a three-seater bike for the family, which is great fun but cost more than some people spend on a car

I have only ever driven one new car, my last company car (a V70 2.5

20v SE auto). Our current car, like the previous one, was bought six years old with 100,000 miles on the clock. The car I sold was a 70k mile Honda Civic.

That said, I have never experienced a failure on a bike which resulted in it being unable to complete the journey.

Guy

-- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.

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88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University
Reply to
Just zis Guy, you know?

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