Anti-social vehicle - test case

I wonder where Wardlaw got his figures from. I started cycling 17 years ago when I was 30 as I worked on the edge of town and the bus services were poor. I have never had anyone with a clipboard ask me about cycling and neither has anyone I know.

5,358 in 1997; 5,804 in 1998; 5,455 in 1999; 5,291 in 2000. 7,267 in 1980 (according to IRTAD).

Hmm, so that's rather flat for not far off an entire decade. And it looks like greater clampdown on speed is having little effect. Rather different from the propaganda put about by the speedweenies.

Indeed. As far as I recall the speed weenie propaganda has it that a third of deaths are due to cameras, so there should have been a substantial rise in France following their recent clampdown.

Guy

-- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

No, it will take several years to spoil a previously favourable trend. AIUI the greater part of recent improvements in France is due to tougher drink-drive enforcement.

--

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." (WilliamPitt, 1783)

AIUI the greater part of recent improvements in France is due to tougher enforcement, full stop.

Guy

-- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Perhaps that explains why despite a claim for a huge fall in deaths, deaths have stayed level. The deaths that were saved by the reduction in speed were balanced exactly by the deaths caused by speed cameras.

Errm BTW, France still has bugger all GATSOs. So I don't think they figure in accident stats either way.

By human beings, not by robot fund raisers.

I appreciate the fact that les flics patrol the autoroutes, I wonder why we never see police cars patrolling our motorways anymore? Ah yes, because stupid people think that you can replace policemen with cameras.

Would you care to separate out the effects of greater enforcement on drink driving with the increased effect of speed cameras then? You may find that enforcement over a whole range of motorists misdemeanours is being addressed.

John B

A bit of a mistake there - I picked cars fatalities instead of total, and later figures are now out. 1997 to 2002 was:

8,444 8,918 8,487 8,079 8,160 7,655

(13,000 in 1980)

ago when I was 30 as I worked on the edge of town and the bus > services were poor. I have never had anyone with a clipboard ask me > about cycling and neither has anyone I know.

This might help:-

Adrian

I'll be happy to confirm that the figure is "clearly wrong" just as soon as you (or anyone else) produces some "authoritative" figures demonstrating the fact.

It isn't clear to me that the figure is obviously wrong. Why should it be, when I wasn't even alive at the time?

Why are you pretending not to comprehend my last post?

Shocked? I know dozens of children and I can't think of a single one who does not own a bicycle (or at least, in the case of my two-year old, a tricycle). However out of touch I may be with the youth of forty years ago, you are at least as out of touch with the youth of today.

No, it's the way you wrote it that implied that.

Jim.

a lot of disabled drivers, certainly those who get the mobility component of DLA never actually own a car -motability schem cars are lease cars

i'm not sure what happens to them when the lease is up

- some i'm sure get out into the normal car market - especially those which are relatively unmolested - like the manual zafira my dear departed dad drove on a motability lease , or those motability cars where the disabled person is the passnger and their other half / offspring/ best firend is the nominated driver

even a hand control equipped car is relatively easily modified back to standard - when it isappears into the marketplace as a normal automatic car

it depends

most young and /or fit paraplegics could jump from their 'chair into one another's hand control equipped cars and drive them

however the more complex someone's needs the more complex the adaptions the more specifci the car

I really don't see the point in speculating about how somebody else worked out a particular figure, especially when the difference between

2.5 and 3 doesn't seem that big a deal.

I've never seen Transport Trends - how are their stats collated? The National Travel Survey finds that 45% of miles cycled are done by males aged 17 or under.

I've already posted the link to Wardlaw's missive - if he gives supporting figures, you will find them either there, or (more likely) in his 2000 BMJ paper.

I'd say it's more than probable, given the wide divergences in other transport and safety stats among the European countries.

Jim.

The National Travel Survey for 2001 quotes the figures for 75/76. Females aged 5-10: 18 miles cycling per year Males aged 5-10: 32 miles cycling per year

That is not consistent with large numbers cycling to school.

TT looks over several years of NTS.

Which part of NTS claims 45% ?

... which with the help of google eventually gets us to...

Figure 6 gives cyclists killed per 100 million km,which has the usual suspects being 'safe', except forthe UK which looks a bit below average for cyclists.

Won't be me - you often see people in villages so you drive accordingly.