Anti-social vehicle - test case

Do you drive? I'm asking because I'm guessing you're in uk.transport, so it's not a given :)

If you believe the figures (I imagine modern cars can stop much quicker than the given distances in the HC) for 30 - 0mph, then IIRC it's 75 foot including thinking time. You've got a lot more time to move your index from the rim of the steering wheel onto the horn press than you have to stop.

Parked cars don't tend to suddenly appear chasing a football, falling off pavements in a drunken stupor, or any one of the myriad fuckwitted things you see people do though. And sometimes there's not much you can do to avoid invoking Darwin other than blasting the horn and hoping that activates their primitive mind into self preservation mode.

I have never hit a pedestrian, but I did see a child thwacked once. There was heavy traffic queuing at a main light controlled junction. There was also a light controlled pedestrian crossing 30 yards ahead. A child decided to ignore the crossing and dash out into the traffic. Luckily for him he avoided the oncoming that was flowing at normal speeds, and was bumped by a woman pulling up next to us. She was going slowly enough that he was just thrown a few feet and was fine afterwards. However, how the hell she is supposed to see someone being so totally bloody stupid? By the usual logic, it must have been her fault, for she was in a car, and the child, bless his little nylon mix socks, was only trying to get home for tea.

Don't get me wrong, anyone who drives a car also has to walk at least sometimes, and I have come close to being hit, because I've been being a total prat. I've cut it fine when panicking about getting somewhere, I've had my head in the clouds and tried to cross roads without knowing there's a car hurtling at me. And you know what, one day I might even get run over. But unless I'm mowed down by someone driving on the pavement, or running a red light, I can only blame myself.

If you ever do the calculation fr railways (or for PT in general), please feel free to add in a similarly-made-up number for the external costs of those modes.

Speak to people like my friend in Liverpool, whose garden is repeatedly invaded by people (most of them old enough to know better) who are theoretically waiting at the bus-stop outside his property. Some of them seem to think that his property is their to do as they like in. And they seem to like doing some pretty disgusting things on occasion.

The costs to him - if it could be quantified - would be considerable.

Indeed.

Bon't forget the nuisance caused to flat-dwellers near every London suburban railway station - daily (and nightly) treated to an amplified running commentary as to where the next train came from, where it is supposed to be going and why it won't get there when it was supposed to. This is merely an example, of course - but a very extensive one.

"Stuffed" wrote

Yes I drive.

...the improvement is much less than many people imagine.

A person walking at 3mph crosses a car footprint in 1.5 seconds. It takes 2 seconds to stop from 30mph. So if the ped steps out 2 seconds in front you could stop - though it may not be necessary to actually do so because any amount of slowing down extends the escape time.

For truly "unable to stop" we are probably looking for a notice time of under a second. I don't really see the horn having much use in that time.

The thing is, people don't suddenly materialise out of thin air 30 feet in front of a car. I find people give plenty of clues and though I passed my test 30 years ago I can't recall any kind of sweaty palm experience or near miss with a ped. The worst I can think of is when being stationary someone chooses to cross in front as I am expecting to move off.

I also ride a bike a bit, now that is where people really do step out, even if they are looking at you. Though actually, that is one of the best clues.

There are bound to be some genuine cases where a driver gets insufficient notice or clues. Still, I don't see what benefit a horn might bring.

And lack of sleep can be for many reasons, most far more complex than someone driving past your house for a couple of seconds.

An RX8 goes past my house every morning, usually i'm asleep, but every now again, usually when i've not got round to going to bed i here it, sounds awesome at 12,000,000rpm or whatever they go to :)

theres on one my road but he drives a 0.5 rpm, :(

JNugent snipped-for-privacy@AC30.freeofspamserve.co.uk opined the following...

If we're taking in that level of detail, I presume that a fair comparison with cars would include the double / triple glazing costs of all housing estates near major roads. The costs of building giant concrete walls in an attempt to keep the noise out. The early morning slamming of car doors by inconsiderate neighbours.

These are merely examples of course.

Jon

You don't get laid much do you Mark?

Fraser

Seconded

Well it's the time in between putting on the brakes and coming to a halt.

Maybe it won't help if they freeze, but at least you gave them a chance to get out of the path of your vehicle during its passage through the place they are standing.

Oh I do. If I ram a parked car, that's just a bit of paperwork and more premium for the next few years. Not really a problem.

If an animal, kid or drunk is playing/meandering in a main road, I'd much rather blast them with the horn so they realise what they are doing is stupid and dangerous, rather than leave them to get run over by the next car.

It does depend on the type of car and the usage though. If you think about it, Americans tend to have big cars with V8's etc, these guzzle 'gas' very quickly. If you get a cheap, small car etc. then it may not cost as much. Could my 899cc car be faser than a Ferrari?

I like cars, and they're very useful. Buses are terrible and expensive, but I won't go into that. Walking takes a long time too, it takes me almost 3hrs to walk to uni! If I walk to uni and back again most of the day's gone.

I'm always amazed that people expect animals to understand what a blast on the horn or a flashing of the lights means.

In news:c83dah$ftf$ snipped-for-privacy@titan.btinternet.com, mark james decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows

oh dear.

so, what did the dibble have to say? Anything?

They're probably deaf anyway? Sorry? What? You'll have to speak up..

so loud music means you're sexually inadequate does it? Bugger. I have a loud system in my car, admittedly I don't drive round town with it on full blast, I have a loud system because, hey, my car is a Capri and it's 1960's technology so if I'm on the motorway at 75 mph it's not *quite* as quiet as a 2004 Lexus LS430, which means that I can't hear the quiet bits on Pink Floyd's fabulous "The Final Cut" cd, so I have a good stereo to counteract this. This must therefore mean I'm hung like a Guatemalan Swamp Rat.

Driving through towns with the stereo on full crack is, frankly, rather sad. Unfortunately, my job involves driving limousines with a large selection of pissed teenagers about, and you can guarantee the first thing they do when they get in is crack the rather expensive stereo system up to ear bleeding volumes. This does not make my life easy, as trying to guide a 33 foot long,

6.5 foot wide, barely guidable missile down some side street isn't easy in the first place. If I was arrested or fined because of you and your like attempting to fine / ban / make my job even more antisocial than it already is, then I would not be even slightly impressed.

People *should* turn there systems down in urban areas late at night, that I agree with, but getting me done for anti social behaviour when I'm only doing my job is in my mind, an anti social act of its own.

So you ride a bike instead, obviously ;-)

Guy

-- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Happens a lot to you does it? Have you considered there might be some aspect of your driving that could be at fault?

I have yet to hear an "intact" exhaust which sounds as harsh as a common or garden transit van. These are very noisy ... in fact the local gangmaster has 8 down my road and they are far far louder than the "kevin" down the road with a straight through pipe on his corsa.

I think this guy is complaining because its a bmw with a loud exhaust. Stick it next to an old tractor unit and rev the knackers off each, then see which is noisier. Ha ... maybe if i borrow the works generator and plant that outside his house. straight 6 by 24 litres ... direct drive cooling fan... so noisy it probably causes caivitations inside your heart when you stand near it.

Oh yeah, I never thought about that. I haven't got a bike though and if I did have one then I'd have nowhere to put it :-(

Actually, it's very unpleasant walking. I walked down one road and there was something wrong with one of the cars. I could taste the exhaust gasses in my mouth, even with my mouth shut. There was also a similar experience a few days later. For this reason I think that cycling a walking are very unpleasant, and maybe bad for somebodys health.

Pete M wrote (in message ):

FWIW, there is already case lore of drivers nicked and convicted for excessive noise - one example I remember reading about involved an open top car with a stereo blaring which the copper could hear from the other end of the village.

Simon

Yes, every time I attempt to slow down.

Lucky you, eh? I'd like to have a car that stops in no time.