OT: Intel Macs - Official dual boot for XP

They supply iGoggles free with their hardware. This explains users' inability to see, let alone admit that their system is not perfect. :P

Perhaps you should switch on automatic updates.

I bet she would have a clue.

Well, the point is that, it may not be perfect, but it's a lot closer to perfect than Windows or Linux.

A vulnerability is still one if it hasn't been exploited.

That's true.

Goes for Windows /and/ Mac users.

Anything looks good next to the abomination that is Windows.

You don't have any idea at all, do you?

You appear to be under the illusion that all computer users are some sort of geek.

Here's news to you..... for the average person, who's not really had any contact with computers before, OSX is an easy, trouble free and idiot proofed system that they'll pick up with very little help.

Are you going to provide us with a citation or other confirmation of how you know so much about the internal procedures of these two companies?

It's a great argument, often wheeled out, but is it really that hard to grasp that computers designed for ease of use, for Normal People (the ones that buy £40 Tesco digicams to email pictures of their dog to email to Aunt Irma in New Zealand) aren't, and shouldn't NEED to be sysadmins, to use their computers.

Windows, as was - before common always-on Broadband connections - was fine for these people. You had to be a bit of a muppet to get a virus when using dialup. However, I have watched portscans attacking my router; I have seen software literally dumped onto a user's machine, due to the security flaws inherent to Windows.

These things are not an issue for Macintosh (and yes, Linux, but Linux is generally not suitable for this class of user, and any real Linux advocate is perfectly aware of the difference between "can do" and "easy to do" so I expect not to have the "oh, Linux can do that" argument without good basis) - either by obscurity (given the challenge it presents, unlikely) or inherent design choices, be they because it is a Unix-based OS, or because Apple made it so (Linspire chooses to install users as root by default).

So, sure. Windows works well enough, and it can be made secure. But why should you have to, when alternatives exist, and frankly, Mac OS pisses all over Linux for predictable application behaviour, ease of installation and use, and stability at the GUI/user level.

Richard

Apart from the fact that a large proportion of Mac users arrived at MacOS in it's various forms after first using some version of DOS or Windows. They have made a conscious decision that MacOS was, in some way, better.

(I arrived at OS8.6 via MS Basic (and several other 8 bit machines), CP/M, OS7.x, Win 3.1, Win 95, Win 98, with a flirtation with a Vax and a Pyramid running Unix inbetween)

I know several thick Mac users. You love the brand so much that you assume that only the non-stupid will buy it. It's a mass-market electrical good. Jade from Big Brother might have one.

That must mean that nobody got infected.

That would be a very good selling point - if someone *that* stupid could use one, then it shows how easy they've made computing.

Observations, common sense, and the total lack of viruses on my Macs ;)

Richard (oh, yeah, and I know people at Apple, and am quite capable of reading when an exploit is discovered and USED on Windows, and when it is discovered on OS X, then seeing when the fixes are applied).

I try very hard not to associate with stupid people ;)

No, I don't. I'm perfectly aware that stupid people will buy anything.

Yeahyeah. Now... come back with some real points ;)

Richard

They didn't. Come on, you've seen how rabid the anti-Mac people are; one reported case of an actual infection in the wild, and it would have been on billboards in Times Square ;)

Richard

Er, no, I have no idea. I think if you give her ten minutes tops, she'll work it out.

No. In my experience, most are nowhere near as competent as they should be.

Oh. Have you run studies that indicated such a result or is that just your opinion of something that you like and refuse to admit is imperfect?

Anti-virus, installed when we bought it.

Zone alarm, occasionally asks my permission to update.

Spybot gets boring not finding anything.

Your point?

Not really.

I am tempted by a Mac Mini, more because I want something small, quiet and network friendly for the home office I'm building, but I don't buy the "Windows XP is hard to maintain" argument.

Unless you're explaining that Windows XP is like Fiat. Better than everything else, just needs TLC?

Hmm.

Since I was rebuilding this notebook anyway I gave this a whirl. Left it connected for thirty minutes. Installed Spybot... nothing.

Surfed as many dodgy websites as I could for another thirty minutes, cleared out the gubbins using Spybot, then put the firewall on, blah blah blah.

Worst thing that's ever infected this machine is iTunes.